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Great ride by stoner, glad to see you have the front end well and truly sorted now.

Great battle with hayden and rossi although im sure jumkie will claim dirty racing with that pass rossi put on the farm boy, well there not riding for a championship so i guess it was ok
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Spies continues to impress.
 
Is this the new theme, that every race people are complaining that passes are dirty? When you get in front of someone, they have to give up their line. If they don't want to, there can be contact, but that's a two-person action. I haven't seen anybody pull a torpedo or run an impossible line, so until that happens, you whiners need to "park it" with the same complaints every race. You can watch time trials (or the PI stoner cam) if you prefer no action. If racers can't react appropriately to Rossi's moves, or fire back the same medicine, that's their problem not his.



I was rooting for Nicky to win that battle too, but he didn't. And that's on him.
 
I agree with most of your take. I'm actually surprised you acknowledged Rossi's first bonsai move on Hayden. Tell me something, why is it that when Simoncelli makes a similar pass he's called "dangerous?" Anyway, if this cost Hayden time, how come you don't see it the same as when Rossi claimed he lost the race by losing 2 seconds on a much more mild move? Double standard?

Rossi is smart because he bullies into the inside line knowing that once he has a wheel, all he as to do is park it (classic block pass) and then run opponent wide because at that point he has the physical advantage. He did the exact same thing with Lorenzo at Motegi for that final pass. This is a common motocross move. I think that's why these guys train so much in this discipline. In motocross, I'd say its more acceptable. But in roadracing, I think its dirty. You may not think its dirty, that's ok. Until Rossi gets called on it, I suppose he should use it because he's getting away with it. As far as what is "legal", well we all know that is highly subjective. There is a human being in a booth deciding what is legal and what is not. Tamada got DQ for less. Like I said, until somebody is willing to race Rossi like Rossi, he will win every one of these battles. I think it does say something about the man and his entitlement in the sport. But that's not his fault if he's willing to resort to those tactics and push the line of what is acceptable and get away with it. People say this is a contact sport, but its really not. Its a sport where contact occurs. There is a difference. Anyway, Rossi got the podium resorting to these tactics, if it were somebody else they'd call him "dangerous" like he called Elias. But being called dangerous doesn't make it wrong. So if this is what it takes to get ahead, then some people will use it. Rossi is chosen to use this tactic and it has served him well.



The only thing i said about Rossi losing 2 seconds, was that it's racing and it happens to all of them sometimes. remind me if i have said otherwise.

about Simoch's dangerous riding, i asked you in last gp why you dont complain against Simochelli move, which then you discribed it the same as the Rossi move on Lorenzo in Motegi. and then i asked you is it because this time your favorite rider gained some advantage out of it, and you didn't answer that.

are you again comparing Rossi's move on Hayden with the Simochelli's on Aoyama?

Didn't Casey block passed Rossi for the third at Germany 2010? this pass happens a lot, and i seriously doubt it that they only let Rossi get away with it.

at the end i will bring some snap shots of that overtake from above and beside. which it doesn't look that much dangerous as it looked on the on board cam.
 

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Ofcourse evey rider and fun are subjective. That is why the same move could be geniuos for one and dangerous for another. But this is life. And I think that if there was any concern about Rossi being not safe, other teams and riders would have logged a complaint with Dorna. You give the man too much power.



+1
 
People forget this mundialto ....., whats happened has past, just look to the future delights we may get served.



Stoner...Epic as usal at PI with some good sliding to.



Lorenzo...good solid ride.



Rossi & Hayden...I think people need to realise that with these playstations on wheels there is only 1 fast line thus meanig only 1 real way to pass & thats a block pass on the brakes (No Barry not backin it in), if you cant get pass on a straight. As someone else said they often look a lot closer than they really are & can more often than not force the rider being passed off line & wide.



I think Rossi screwed up his first pass on Hayden when Nicky lost a couple of places but the he kept his .... together & came back at em.



Pretty much every pass not in a straight line in this formula is done in this way. Nicky's move on Lorenzo on the last lap at Aaragon was similar.
 
Brilliant ride by Stoner.
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About the Hayden/Rossi battle, great stuff. I wish there were much more of this kind of fighting for position in every GP round. Did not notice anything dirty going on, just good racing between them. Of course Rossi is going to go for the pass on the inside, especially when Hayden's line is so wide. What impressed me was Haden's will to fight back.



re Spies, I cannot wait until next year.
 
Congrats to Stoner. He was light out!



Jorge, fast, but it goes to show you just how on song Casey was riding today.



Rossi & Hayden made the race interesting. Seems Rossi let Nicky know they are gonna be "teammates" next year. Until somebody is willing to cut Vale's line off, park it, and proceed to run him wide while leaning on the outside bike to gain the position, Rossi will win every one of these battles. I suppose its not Rossi's fault that nobody is willing to race him like this. But then again, if somebody tries it, I'm sure they will be immediately black flagged for aggressive riding. Legal yes, dirty, yes, acceptable, I suppose, classy, no. Nicky said it was a good battle and chalked it up to good hard racing. That's how the man takes his lumps.



I really felt like Nicky was pissed and should have waited longer to pass Rossi. In the post-race interview

there was a quavering in his voice - and he sounded like he was on the verge of crying. The boy wears

his heart on his sleeve. He lacks that cold killer-instinct that makes Rossi, Lorenzo and Spies such deadly

competitors. He's a little too human for his own good. Still - of all the riders - he's the one I'd choose to

hang out with if the opportunity arose. Hanging out at a party with Rossi, Lorenzo and Spies would be

like swimming with sharks.



Anyhoo... great to see Stoner back on form. Here's hoping he can transfer that to the Honda without too much

of a learning curve.
 
Great ride by stoner, glad to see you have the front end well and truly sorted now.

Great battle with hayden and rossi although im sure jumkie will claim dirty racing with that pass rossi put on the farm boy, well there not riding for a championship so i guess it was ok
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Spies continues to impress.



He also forgot his own "they Aren't team mates, theory" .
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I saw one replay and it looked as a block pass which Rossi does a lot and is legal, otherwise they would give him a penalty, oh wait he is Rossi and they are affraid to punish him.

let's see what others will say about this. especially the known haters.



but he made one mistake/fault on Hayden when he overtook him for the first time, and Hayden lost 1 or 2 places, which Fortunatly he could find his rythem very fast and overtake both Spies and Simochelli. So that one didn't cost Hayden.



Trawl much, Troll? I'm not a Rossi-Fan as such, but I thought his passes while tough, were legal. I still prefer a finessed pass that requires skill over one that uses roller-derby techniques. But yes, it is racing.
 
Is this the new theme, that every race people are complaining that passes are dirty? When you get in front of someone, they have to give up their line. If they don't want to, there can be contact, but that's a two-person action. I haven't seen anybody pull a torpedo or run an impossible line, so until that happens, you whiners need to "park it" with the same complaints every race. You can watch time trials (or the PI stoner cam) if you prefer no action. If racers can't react appropriately to Rossi's moves, or fire back the same medicine, that's their problem not his.



I was rooting for Nicky to win that battle too, but he didn't. And that's on him.

+1 well said
 
Trawl much, Troll? I'm not a Rossi-Fan as such, but I thought his passes while tough, were legal. I still prefer a finessed pass that requires skill over one that uses roller-derby techniques. But yes, it is racing.



Nice to see most people have found it a legal pass, though some want it a bit different.

I saw a fault in Rossi's first overtake on Hayden, and was glad for Nikky, fortunatly he didnt lost it there and came back faster, though i dont know if that mistake/ fault is worth of a penalty.
 
I new the usuals could not read and understand my critic of the moves. I see how much have latched on and said its legal as if somebody said it was not. But its a common tactic of debate with those who have nothing, that is to project and say something that has not been said, then try to argue that point. Dirty doesn't mean illegal! And yes Chops, pretending not to have read the thread, in case you missed it, I'm saying others should employ this tactic with more frequency (especially non teammates, but you didn't get the quip). I did say they are legal and I did say its fine, as Hayden basically said it was just hard racing. The thing you guys can't understand is its a desperation tactic. Nobody is willing to go ... for tat and barge into the inside and then because one can't hold the line have to run the other wide. Its dirty. Anybody who can't see the kind of tactic that it is, is not only an ..... but blinded. It appears most other riders are not willing to resort to this tactic. As far as being able to do it, I think most of these top riders have the capacity, I don't think that's the problem. More should do it if they feel its not undermining their own integrity.
 
I really felt like Nicky was pissed and should have waited longer to pass Rossi. In the post-race interview

there was a quavering in his voice - and he sounded like he was on the verge of crying. The boy wears

his heart on his sleeve. He lacks that cold killer-instinct that makes Rossi, Lorenzo and Spies such deadly

competitors. He's a little too human for his own good. Still - of all the riders - he's the one I'd choose to

hang out with if the opportunity arose. Hanging out at a party with Rossi, Lorenzo and Spies would be

like swimming with sharks.

Agree and disagree to a point, yes Nicky does wear his heart on his sleeve and is a little more human than the competitors mentioned. But the part about his voice quivering and on the verge of crying, don't think so. Not sure what the temperature was at the end of the race, but after riding a hard race and sweating like crazy in your leathers, then stopping acdtivity in cool weather, your body is shaking and it's hard to speak, I've experienced the same thing many times after racing motorcross or bmx, can't say a damn thing and sound like I'm about to cry. This of course is just my opinion, but I don't think there are any cry babies in MotoGP, these are pretty tough dudes.



As far as the race, thought it was a bit boring except Rossi, Hayden, Spies, and Simmocelli.



And Johnny Knockdown threw in his line and a lot of you bit...shame on you Johnny. And I'll go back and look, but I don't think Jumkie ever said Rossi put a dirty move on Hayden. Like Nicky was quoted as saying after the race, good hard racing, nothing more.
 
Is this the new theme, that every race people are complaining that passes are dirty? When you get in front of someone, they have to give up their line. If they don't want to, there can be contact, but that's a two-person action. I haven't seen anybody pull a torpedo or run an impossible line, so until that happens, you whiners need to "park it" with the same complaints every race. You can watch time trials (or the PI stoner cam) if you prefer no action. If racers can't react appropriately to Rossi's moves, or fire back the same medicine, that's their problem not his.

Just about every pass could be executed as you describe above. Most of these guys can late brake into a turn and get a wheel in on another rider, but when they come in and proceed to run wide, it a block interrupting the other's line. That has been the theme of Rossi's passes lately. Its a bit like a brake check. Are you gonna tell me that's not a dirty tactic too? That's the discussion that you missed by being sucked into the brainless theme of discounting it as whining. Most riders don't resort to this dirty tactic. I'm agreeing with your last point, I'm saying they should use this tactic more often in battles with Vale, otherwise Rossi will win every time. The thing is I suspect they don't, not because they can't execute similar moves, but something else impedes them. Maybe it just balls? Maybe, perhaps integrity?
 
And I'll go back and look, but I don't think Jumkie ever said Rossi put a dirty move on Hayden. Like Nicky was quoted as saying after the race, good hard racing, nothing more.



JohnnyK did say its dirty and I agree. Is it possible for people to see these similar tactics emplyed and not see them for what they are? It doesn't make them wrong L8, but it is a desperate move. Saying its typical is because we see one rider employ the tactic frequently in such exchanges. And I agree. JK didn't go into that much detail, but I'm sure he will agree they are legal moves. So no harm no foul. Legal, but certainly dirty.



I did say its "dirty", but legal. Its a desperation tactic employed by Rossi frequently in these types of battles and I wish other riders employed the same stye in these particular exchanges. Rossi made two passes on Hayden, the first one was executed very poorly (most agree). The second one was a classic block pass. Its a desperation move but acceptable. The problem people are having (and just the regulars at that) is my description of it being a desperate move. Fair, yes, legal, yes, dirty yes. I'm repeating myself for the benefit of the blind types that will claim something other than what I've stated. Nicky did not have a problem with it. I think he was more pissed at himself that riding with integrity didn't get it done. If anybody is going to win these battles with Rossi, they need to employ the same tactics. The aggressive legal dirty ones. In the end its all good. Hard racing like Nicky said.
 
if you think thats a dirty pass maybe you should stop being a fan of motorbike racing and join an F1 forum
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if you think thats a dirty pass maybe you should stop being a fan of motorbike racing and join an F1 forum
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Original.
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You're right, I guess this tactic doesn't exit. I guess I should just tow the line that every pass, every move is clean. My bad. You convinced me buddy.
 

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