Assen TT - Rnd 8 2015 - SPOILERS

#22 · Jul 2, 2015

Talking of tyres, I found some interesting quotes from 2007:

Crash.net:

World champion elect Casey Stoner has hit out at MotoGP legend Valentino Rossi's call for a change in the current tyre regulations, accusing the Italian of not being able to cope with a difficult season.

Speaking to Australia's Melbourne Age newspaper, the Ducati rider said that Rossi needed to stop 'whinging' and get on with the regulations, which were brought in at the start of the year in an effort to contain costs. Under the new regulation, Michelin is prevented from bringing specially-constructed tyres to events - something it used to do even on the eve of race day of qualifying had not been promising - with all riders restricted to 17 nominated rear tyres for each race weekend.

"This rule is not good and we need more tyres," Rossi said earlier in the week, "The problem is for the show because, at the end, it is the tyre that decides the race."

"At the beginning of the season, Valentino and the others were all for the new tyre rules," Stoner points out, "but, as soon as they don't win, the rule is crap. I've had my bad races this year, especially in Germany, and I'm not complaining about the tyre rule.

"They can moan and whinge about it as much as they want, but it shows that [Michelin] has had such an advantage in the past. This season, they cannot bring a tyre in just for the race [and] it's a matter of relying on the company that supports you to do a good job."

Interestingly, Rossi's crew chief, Australian Jerry Burgess, is in favour of keeping the rules as they are.

"The tyre rule has not been the main reason for Valentino not winning races this season," he said enigmatically, "I like the rule, it's equal for everyone and think it should stay."

Also from MCN:

Valentino Rossi believes Michelin’s previous tactic of flying in overnight special race tyres is proving the big handicap in his bid to fight against the formidable Casey Stoner, Ducati and Bridgestone package in 2007.

This year’s new premier class tyre restrictions took away a key advantage held by Michelin over rivals Bridgestone, with the French manufacturer no longer able to fly in special rubber made overnight for its riders including factory Yamaha rider Valentino Rossi.

Valentino Rossi said: “The problem is that the way of working that we had with Michelin was completely different with the tyres that they could make on the weekends.

“That was a big handicap for us, because Bridgestone was already used to working in the way that is now needed. It seems that Bridgestone is working a little bit better.”

So instead of working with Michelin to improve their tyres and be on a par with the Stoner/Ducati/Bridgestone combination, Rossi asked for the same advantages that he had been commanding from 01-06 by switching to the same tyre, which initially Bridgestone said no to but were then FORCED to by the boss of the series.

From MCN:

As was revealed by MCN last month in Phillip Island, Valentino Rossi has today confirmed he will switch to Bridgestone tyres in 2008.

An official announcement has just been made by Yamaha in Valencia, confirming that the Italian will run as the lone YZR-M1 rider on Bridgestone rubber, with Rossi’s Fiat Yamaha team-mate using Michelin.

Rossi admitted he first pushed to dump Michelin after his poor performance in the Laguna Seca GP at the end of July.

An initial request by Yamaha in August was turned down by Bridgestone, which then prompted a huge political wrangle.

Dorna boss Carmelo Ezpeleta got involved and it was his intervention and subsequent pressure on Bridgestone to supply just for Rossi that saw an agreement reached last Wednesday.

So what's the stop Ezee stepping in again and forcing Michelin to make tyres suited to Rossi in 2016? I'm not talking about Hard/Soft tyres here, I'm talking about the inherent characteristics that even if it suits the Yamaha more than the other bikes (and what a coincidence that would be), could be made to suit Rossi more then Lorenzo and nothing stops them limiting the options of tyres to the ones Rossi prefers, no? I'm not going all conspiracy here, but as can be seen above, MotoGP as a series has never been shy of favouring Rossi in the past (Bridgestones then the move back to Yamaha) so all the evidence points to them not being shy about doing it in the future if needs be.

JPSLotus · Jul 2, 2015

Keshav said:
Can't argue about the unfairness of the SNS era. But in the single supplier era - we're talking about a whole other dynamic.

The key here is "at the moment". Much criticism has been made of Dorna's short-sightedness. But this is Michelin who have been butt-hurt at being tossed out of the game these last seasons. Now there's no tire war - it makes more sense to formulate tires that work across a broad spectrum as Rossi beating ______ won't imply that Michelin is better than _____'s tire because they'll all be on the same tire. It's undeniable that Rossi has enjoyed an incredible resurgence this year, but at 36 it's wishful thinking to believe that he can continue to sustain this streak. Sure, he'll sell lots of t-shirts and memorabilia for years to come, but J-lo and MM (who broke a record number of records last year) are the ones that riders in the near future - will be looking to beat. Any smart company looks to the future. Michelin is in the business of selling tires and benefits from all riders looking good using their product. They're decidedly not, in the business of selling t-shirts.

Yeah don't be so sure of that Kesh.

Peformance enhancing drugs can help guys turn the clock back if they've got the talent to begin with.

And really, does either J-Lo and MurderMac have the following Rossi does?

The local pizza place by me is owned by a guy from Italy. Big Rossi fan. So big, that I just say how much I love Rossi for fear of having my pizza poisoned should I say anything negative about VR.

Who gives a .... what Michelin is in the business to do? Dorna runs the whole ....... show. Their word is gospel at the end of it.

JPSLotus · Jul 2, 2015

#22 said:
So what's the stop Ezee stepping in again and forcing Michelin to make tyres suited to Rossi in 2016? I'm not talking about Hard/Soft tyres here, I'm talking about the inherent characteristics that even if it suits the Yamaha more than the other bikes (and what a coincidence that would be), could be made to suit Rossi more then Lorenzo and nothing stops them limiting the options of tyres to the ones Rossi prefers, no? I'm not going all conspiracy here, but as can be seen above, MotoGP as a series has never been shy of favouring Rossi in the past (Bridgestones then the move back to Yamaha) so all the evidence points to them not being shy about doing it in the future if needs be.

Nothing is going to stop Carmelo from stepping in again to do whatever is necessary to keep the golden goose in contention. Which is what makes the entire thing so laughable that Mick and Kesh keep trying to make-believe that NOTHING of that sort could possibly, or would possibly ever happen again.

Michelin has all of Rossi's data from 7 years ago and earlier. All they have to do is talk to him to find out of his preferences still hold true, and they'll go about constructing the tires accordingly.

Arrabbiata1 · Jul 2, 2015

Keshav said:
Can't argue about the unfairness of the SNS era. But in the single supplier era - we're talking about a whole other dynamic.

The example I gave was in the single supplier era remember. There was a hierarchy of supply and the preferential treatment was aligned to the factory teams - or more specifically, certain riders. And more recently than that, even the most imaginative conspiracy theorist would struggle to fabricate scenario's comparable to Neil Hodgson's testimonies from his time at D'antin.

Keshav · Jul 2, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Only here can you see people claiming that a rider who is leading the championship at almost the halfway point in the season is a "diminishing return" for Dorna.

Rule #4 of the 10 Crack Commandments is never get high on your own supply.

Again... switched gears. For Dorna.... Rossi is seat-selling gold.

But Michelin (who we've been discussing in case you've lost the thread), needs to have a better showing, after much egg-on-the-face when the SNSs were banned. That their tires were so bad that they made a rather large and public apology to Rossi in 2006 when their tire failed him so miserably was terrifically embarrassing. Not a few thought that his inability to finish that race in Shanghai cost him the championship. As I said - the dynamic is different now that Michelin is essentially competing with itself. This is their chance to show if they can do as good a job as Bridgestone.

MotoChick · Jul 2, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Please.

The song Rock You Like a Hurricane was written about me.

Whys that? Do you blow through quickly and leave everyone dissapointed?

Keshav · Jul 2, 2015

Arrabbiata1 said:
The example I gave was in the single supplier era remember. There was a hierarchy of supply and the preferential treatment was aligned to the factory teams - or more specifically, certain riders. And more recently than that, even the most imaginative conspiracy theorist would struggle to fabricate scenario's comparable to Neil Hodgson's testimonies from his time at D'antin.

My bad. We here in The Colonies were not aware of the Hodgson testimony. I will look it up and learn.

JPSLotus · Jul 2, 2015

Keshav said:
Again... incorrect. For Dorna.... Rossi is seat-selling gold.
But Michelin (who we've been discussing in case you've lost the thread), needs to have a better showing, after much egg-on-the-face in when the SNSs were banned. That their tires were so bad that they made a rather large and public apology to Rossi in 2006 when their tire failed him so miserably was terrifically embarrassing. Not a few thought that his inability to finish that race cost him the championship. As I said - the dynamic is different now that Michelin is essentially competing with itself.

Jesus H Christ Kesh.

WHOSE ....... RACE SERIES IS IT, DORNA OR MICHELIN?

JPSLotus · Jul 2, 2015

MotoChick said:
Whys that? Do you blow through quickly and leave everyone dissapointed?

I always leave everyone disappointed...

...that the fun had to stop.

Keshav · Jul 2, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Yeah don't be so sure of that Kesh.

Peformance enhancing drugs can help guys turn the clock back if they've got the talent to begin with.

And really, does either J-Lo and MurderMac have the following Rossi does?

The local pizza place by me is owned by a guy from Italy. Big Rossi fan. So big, that I just say how much I love Rossi for fear of having my pizza poisoned should I say anything negative about VR.

Who gives a .... what Michelin is in the business to do? Dorna runs the whole ....... show. Their word is gospel at the end of it.

JPSLotus said:
Nothing is going to stop Carmelo from stepping in again to do whatever is necessary to keep the golden goose in contention. Which is what makes the entire thing so laughable that Mick and Kesh keep trying to make-believe that NOTHING of that sort could possibly, or would possibly ever happen again.

Michelin has all of Rossi's data from 7 years ago and earlier. All they have to do is talk to him to find out of his preferences still hold true, and they'll go about constructing the tires accordingly.

Just realized - you haven't been nick-named as yet. I now pronounce you Jape - making you more officially a PS - BE (Beloved Entertainer).

You don't think Rossi (and all the others) are all already using PEDs?

Michelin's reputation depends on making a superior product - not on sucking Carmelo's shriveled weenie. If they make tires that suck for everyone but Rossi - they will look like .....

And you think that data from a bike Rossi rode 7 years ago is still relevant? Maybe you should ride shotgun with Jum (whilst he's not replying) as the only reason that he has no comeback is either he's exhausted his supply of recyclable strawman come-backs, or he's heading to the smoke shop 'cause he dropped his crack pipe. Maybe you all can shop together for one of the romantic couples models with two stems.

Jumkie · Jul 2, 2015

J4rn0 said:
One thing is for sure, since 2008 Valentino Rossi is not at all a Michelin man. Just as since 2003 he's quite the opposite of being a Honda man.
On the contrary, he has a more to lose than others if Michelin (as it seems) brings in a weaker front tire, a strong front being so important for his riding style.

Rossi became a Bridgestone man in nano-second (the first who did no less) after years of being the favored son at Michelin. I'm sure he can find it in his heart to become a Michelin man once again. Its not like he is adverse to throwing people under the bus, just ask Burgess.

I'm still laughing at Kesh's reply about Michelin overlooking Rossi to look to the future. I have no response....(edit) while I'm laughing at Kesh.

Jumkie · Jul 2, 2015

Keshav said:
Just realized - you haven't been nick-named as yet. I now pronounce you Jape - making you more officially a PS - BE (Beloved Entertainer).

You don't think Rossi (and all the others) are all already using PED?

Michelin's reputation depends on making a superior product - not on sucking Carmelo's shriveled weenie. If they make tires that suck for everyone but Rossi - they will look like .....

And you think that data from a bike Rossi rode 7 years ago is still relevant? Maybe you should ride shotgun with Jum (whilst he's not replying) as the only reason that he has no comeback is either he's exhausted his supply of recyclable strawman come-backs, or he's heading to the smoke shop 'cause he dropped his crack pipe. Maybe you all can shop together for one of the romantic couples models with two stems.[emoji14]

Look Kesh, this is how gravity works.
[Kesh replies: but look at this balloon, it's floating magically. ]

While I'm trying to regain my composure, I was thinking of Kesh's debate regarding Rossi's stint at Ducati. Who or what was overwhelming blamed for his (VRs ) failure to succeed? Oh yeah, Ducati. So let me get this straight, Michelin are so butt hurt that they will thumb their nose at Rossi, the most popular rider since Jesus, and risk having the masses and Rossi himself blame the tires if he doesn't stay on the sharp end? That totally makes business marketing 'cents'. Its not like Rossi (like Marc today) and every pundit and 90% spectators will take Rossi's lead when he throws the tires under the bus if he doesn't get his way.

Lets see:
2007: The Michelins suck I want Bridgestones.
2010: .... you Yamaha, I will not be disrespected by being treated equally to teammate,
2011: Look everybody, the Ducati sucks,
2013: My crew chief is holding me back.

Do u see a pattern? Kesh...'but look at this balloon, it's floating. Yea.'

Mick D · Jul 2, 2015

JPSLotus said:
The Doctor is not a diminishing returns column at the moment. He only becomes a diminishing return when there are no major records left to break.

Advantages or not, he becomes a diminishing return the SECOND he can no longer keep up with the young guns... and hiding those 'advantages' becomes more difficult than now far before that....

JPSLotus · Jul 2, 2015

Hi Kesh,

You might remember me, the 9-times world champion who basically gets his way every time something doesn't go my way. While I don't like that Jum doesn't worship me, he is right about that timeline. I've been hanging around with the Michelin guys in between race weekends. I take them out to dinner, buy them booze...well Dorna picks up the tab, by I pretend I do everything because I figure it will buy me some love from them.

Carmelo promised me that Michelin would focus their tire development around me. Otherwise I wouldn't be here.

Love,

VR

Jumkie · Jul 2, 2015

Mick D said:
Advantages or not, he becomes a diminishing return the SECOND he can no longer keep up with the young guns... and hiding those 'advantages' becomes more difficult than now far before that....

You mean like how he's not "second" to anyone now, leading the championship against the young future? Or like the "second" (which lasted 2 years) when he sucked at Ducati only for the League to bail him out? Because under both circumstances, he's been treated 'second' to none. But you and Kesh want to take the road that Dorna & Michelin will overlook him and send him to the glue factory? If there was ever a case for your erroneous rationale it would have been when Marc had ascended to glory necessitating Rossi be put out to pasture. But that did NOT happen. However now it supposed to happen because Michelin are butt hurt or will overlook Rossi for Marc or "boring " Lorenzo?

Yea, the balloon, the balloon is floating, gravity is a hoax.

Mick D · Jul 2, 2015

Jumkie said:
....but Kesh and Mick want to convince us Michelin are like...Valentino who?

O'Reilly - have u swapped alcohol for crack? I have never thought anything vaguely like that. What I said was that if Dorna had better than yellow vision they would favour a star with more shelf-life, Bill...

Mick D · Jul 2, 2015

Jumkie said:
....and all the Devine status that a 10th title would bestow...

divine = holy
Devine = my last name...

littlesparrows · Jul 2, 2015

Are you dissing bill o'reilly? What's he have to do with motogp. Come on mick - the spin stops here.

JPSLotus · Jul 2, 2015

Keshav said:
Just realized - you haven't been nick-named as yet. I now pronounce you Jape - making you more officially a PS - BE (Beloved Entertainer).

You don't think Rossi (and all the others) are all already using PEDs?

Michelin's reputation depends on making a superior product - not on sucking Carmelo's shriveled weenie. If they make tires that suck for everyone but Rossi - they will look like .....

And you think that data from a bike Rossi rode 7 years ago is still relevant? Maybe you should ride shotgun with Jum (whilst he's not replying) as the only reason that he has no comeback is either he's exhausted his supply of recyclable strawman come-backs, or he's heading to the smoke shop 'cause he dropped his crack pipe. Maybe you all can shop together for one of the romantic couples models with two stems.

You think a rider or driver's tendencies change that much? There's always a baseline with which they would prefer things to be. What most people perceive to be change is the rider adapting to technical changes of the machinery. It's about the tendencies, not the actual M1 he rode in 2008.

Mick D · Jul 2, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Only here can you see people claiming that a rider who is leading the championship at almost the halfway point in the season is a "diminishing return" for Dorna.

Yeah, it wouldn't be the 10-15 year age difference as they look to the future...

Assen TT - Rnd 8 2015 - SPOILERS

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