Assen TT - Rnd 8 2015 - SPOILERS

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Hmmmm, that sounds good but is not based on any facts at all. The Yamaha's ease-of-use and apparently better performance overall should immediately raise flags with your analysis.

I think the generalisation of potential performance vs wider operational range is fair? I'm not an engineer, but it would seem it is a widely accepted theory in my humble opinion.

With regard to the Yamaha I would argue that it is easy to ride to a point. If we observe Pol, and the comments of Cal during his time at Yamaha, both suggest that over-riding the machine was not conducive to fast lap times.

Allied to that the fact that Jorge is considered to be the most composed and consistent rider on the grid, and that Vale is considered to have a comparably orthodox style when viewed against the more "extravagant" riders, sensitive throttle control, and has had to modify his riding style to suit the bikes requirements in recent years, and I suggest that my theory has some merit.
 
It began as a rumor that slowly pinballed from one end of the Motegi press room to the other. By the time Carmelo Ezpeleta, the genial CEO of Dorna (the Spanish company that has the promotional rights to the MotoGP World Championship), was able to receive a trio of English-language journalists a day later on the morning of the Japanese Grand Prix, his proposal-which had sparked a firestorm when it first appeared late Saturday on the official MotoGP website—was well known and exhaustively debated.

"The problem is the result of the races," Ezpeleta said. "The impact on the show has been very bad." So he floated the idea of spec tires in MotoGP. The reactions were almost equally split between condemnation and commendation. And now the proposal is being considered for the AMA Superbike Championship.

Casey Stoner was largely responsible for the MotoGP curveball. The 21-year-old Australian was not only winning, he was winning by big margins. But more importantly, Valentino Rossi wasn't winning. The seven-time world champion is the consummate showman; if he chases the leader for most of the race and makes a pass on the final lap, he is hailed as the conquering hero. And so everyone sticks around to see how the races end.

But when Rossi was winning tires weren't an issue. A few years ago Bridgestone was still maturing and not a consistent threat, but that changed dramatically in 2007. The world's largest tire company builds tires that work over a wide range of temperatures, unlike Michelin, which builds very narrowly focused tires due to the French company's C3M-process "overnight specials."


In the twists and turns in the days following the Motegi GP weekend suggested that Bridgestone would end up being the sole supplier, even though Yamada was against it. "This has not been decided yet, but if they decide to go to one-make rule, then I'm very disappointed," Yamada explained. "If we have no competition then I won't have the same feeling that I did today when we won the championship."

But in the end, Bridgestone got another premier rider for 2008, Michelin ramped up its program, the tire restrictions were loosened and the show went on. Ezpeleta brokered a deal three weeks later that put Rossi on Bridgestone tires (his teammate Jorge Lorenzo will remain on Michelins). The Italian press reported that Ezpeleta visited Rossi in his hotel room, where Rossi threatened to quit if he didn't get Bridgestones.

ANY MORE QUESTIONS?



.
 
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Rat, Actually the rear tire has been criticized for lack of grip, spinning and such, and has been blamed (at least for Marc's plight) as hammering his style, etc. It's all very complicated but if he's not winning then there must be a complicated and often convoluted explanation.

Regarding the question that Kesh poses (and Arrabi 's amusing response) let's remember a few things:
1. Michelin had a wonderful relationship with Rossi because much to Dorna's delight he was winning.
2. When Bridgestone made a better tire, the FIRST ONE switched by coup, his name was Rossi.
3. 2008 the tire development miraculously favored Rossi coupled with jettisoned Michelin.
4. Michelin made a narrow focused tire (SNS) which was great until the tire limits were imposed, then the tire war favored the manufacturer who had the more conservative tire (or one that performed for a wider condition).
5. Bridgestone made a conservative tire, it's got them booted from GP.
6. The pivot point above was that there existed a tire war after Bstones came good (short lived tire war); no tire war, and SNS have had no competition, and given their experience, would have no incentives now to engineer a tire where most could use, as long as the favorite guy uses it successfully.
7. The biggest reason a single tire supplier was ever introduced was because the wrong guy was winning. (Agree? Disagree? )

1. Agreed
2. Agreed
3. Debatable, but has merit
4. Agreed
5. Agreed
6. Agreed
7. Disagree

On this occasion I can't play devil's advocate, as despite the fact I agree with most, if not all your observations to a certain extent (except point 7), to argue the point would be self defeating.
 
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Well .... me sideways. Who wrote that??!!

Obviously some conspiracy theorist. Which seems the be the go to card around here to dismiss my analysis of things and what not. :)

And see my most recent post...

Which of the edited versions? Hahaha. (No worries, it happens to me too).

Yes, it is highly subjective, but isn't most of our analysis? Regarding our disagreement for the reason a single tire supplier was introduced, I still hold that it was introduced because the wrong guy was winning. When VR was wining by a country mile Carmelo wasn't worried about the show, or as he put it "The problem is the result of the races," and if the clarification was needed: "The impact on the show has been very bad." My friend, that not just tangentially led to the spec tire, but it was the rationale from the horse's mouth no less.
 
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I love the bit where Rossi threatened to quit if he didn't get Bridgestones.

In a reasonable world, no one man should be able to pull something like that.
 
Yes, it is highly subjective, but isn't most of our analysis? Regarding our disagreement for the reason a single tire supplier was introduced, I still hold that it was introduced because the wrong guy was winning. When VR was wining by a country mile Carmelo wasn't worried about the show, or as he put it "The problem is the result of the races," and if the clarification was needed: "The impact on the show has been very bad." My friend, that not just tangentially led to the spec tire, but it was the rationale from the horse's mouth no less.

The only thing missing was the Harvard ....... referencing!

If you've got a link to an article I'll gladly read it and you may well get me to agree to point 7. But until then I'll naively hold onto the sports illusory innocence.
 
I love the bit where Rossi threatened to quit if he didn't get Bridgestones.

In a reasonable world, no one man should be able to pull something like that.

In a reasonable world revenue is second to integrity. What we have here is a World Champion who understands the power he wields. And the real world only respects revenue, not principle.

What truly surprises me is that if these quotes can be verified, then what we have is flagrant corruption of the sporting formula masquerading as impartial leveling of the competition to improve the sporting spectacle.
 
In a reasonable world revenue is second to integrity. What we have here is a World Champion who understands the power he wields. And the real world only respects revenue, not principle.

What truly surprises me is that if these quotes can be verified, then what we have is flagrant corruption of the sporting formula masquerading as impartial leveling of the competition to improve the sporting spectacle.

Well the FIA did it for years when they made or altered the rules so Ferrari could benefit from them because the FIA was run by a Nazi-sympathizer whose parents were fascists and were dear friends of Hitler, and he preferred the idea of a German world champion to anything else all while having Holocaust themed orgies.

Nothing ever happened there.

Nothing would happen with Dorna.

Both are small fish relative to FIFA, and frankly it took the US stepping in with criminal prosecution to have any impact on FIFA.
 
Honda threat to leave if they didn't get their way as I recall. Rat, I'm trying to link u but I'm mobile. when I click on specific article it only shows site. Sportrider.com
 
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Michelin won't be building Rossi a tire to suit him. I'm sure they're salty after he wanted to leave in 2007.

Brivio said: "After Laguna was a period where we started to think about it. We know that Michelin is a big company with a great potential and we waited for the following races because we were sure that Michelin would have come back stronger because they were putting more resources in development. But it didn't really improve. We think that the riders opinion is important because he has to be convinced and confident in the package he has to ride to give 100 per cent. The opinion of the rider is important and if he is confident it is in the interests of the manufacturer to make him happy. If he is happy he can perform and that's all we we are interested in."

I'm sure Michelin still remember this, but it seems their tires weren't good by 2007.

When the tire companies agreed to restrict the number of tires for each event in 2007 to 14 fronts and 17 rears—including two qualifiers—and force riders to make their choice on Thursday, it played into Bridgestone's more versatile rubber. Said Fiat Yamaha's Colin Edwards at Motegi, "This weekend's a perfect example. I had five tires that I chose, but four of them are absolutely junk. Absolute junk. I wouldn't give those to my worst enemy and make him race them. One luckily happens to work, and that's where we're at." But it also meant they wasted much of Saturday practice and qualifying on tires that were worthless for gathering data or racing.

- Spec Tires - Are They Necessary? | Sport Rider

Michelin has only taken four victories so far this season, while Bridgestone-shod bikes have won the remaining nine races. Bridgestone runner Casey Stoner can potentially clinch the 2007 title at Estoril this weekend.

Rossi: rule change wouldn't help Michelin - MotoGP news - AUTOSPORT.com


Also the reason in 2008, Rossi began performing better is because MotoGp is a battle of engine architects, and only one shall win because that's how formula racing works,
in my opinion. Someone comes up with a good idea and everyone else has to copy. When the 4 strokes were introduced in 2002, I picked back that the V5 will win when discussing this amongst my friends. It sports more advantages than the I4... currently there is no evidence that Honda and Ducati have ever explored the I4 whereas according to Burgess Yamaha has explored the V4...

Paraprasing Jeremy Burgess as I can't find the direct link:
".....when working at Yamaha last year they would like to build a V4 engine but there is too much instability in the regulations at the moment and they don't have the man power to develop a new engine"

Paraprasing Neil Spalding on Cooling... as I can't find the direct link:

"Yamaha M1 is the hardest MotoGp bike to cool. Compared with the narrow V4s and the old V5s, its across the frame four reduces airflow through a large area of radiator, and forces the of narrow exhaust ducts."

*This gave Yamaha a lot of trouble in the 990 years, particularly when their M1 got stuck in the hot, turbulent wake of another bike. Rossi famously crashed a Sachsenring in 2007, desperate to get past De Puniet and into some cool, undisturbed air."

"It was only the arrival of Bridgestones tyres in 2008 that saved the situation when Yamaha adapted by moving their engine back in the frame, they got more room for the radiator and the ducts that shoveled its hot air away"
 
Michelin won't be building Rossi a tire to suit him. I'm sure they're salty after he wanted to leave in 2007.

I'm sure Carmelo and Michelin had a long talk before any contract was awarded that there would be no vengeance over 2007, and they are to take the 9-times world champion's preferences into consideration when designing a tire.

After the meeting Carmelo was like this

XNDg0pD7X4jbq.gif
 
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I'm sure Carmelo and Michelin had a long talk before any contract was awarded that there would be no vengeance over 2007, and they are to take the 9-times world champion's preferences into consideration when designing a tire.

If it's good for business, I'm sure Michelin will forget the past when it comes to #46
 
If it's good for business, I'm sure Michelin will forget the past when it comes to #46

Willski it's not even a question of if it's good for business, it is absolutely, positively great for business.

The problem with MotoGP is they built themselves around Rossi for better or worse. I genuinely believe if they could get around the human cloning ban, they would clone Rossi so he could forever be on the grid. It's in their best interest that he is competitive so that he sticks around till at least 39 or 40 years old. They need him to break Agostini's records or at least be in a position to since it means more money than you can possibly imagine. 12 wins to break the record of wins, and 2 more world championships to break that record.

If you look at MotoGP purely from a business perspective and making as much money as possible, you will engage in as many shenanigans as possible to get VR the wins and titles.
 
Willski it's not even a question of if it's good for business, it is absolutely, positively great for business.

The problem with MotoGP is they built themselves around Rossi for better or worse. I genuinely believe if they could get around the human cloning ban, they would clone Rossi so he could forever be on the grid. It's in their best interest that he is competitive so that he sticks around till at least 39 or 40 years old. They need him to break Agostini's records or at least be in a position to since it means more money than you can possibly imagine. 12 wins to break the record of wins, and 2 more world championships to break that record.

If you look at MotoGP purely from a business perspective and making as much money as possible, you will engage in as many shenanigans as possible to get VR the wins and titles.

I concur...I imagine nearly every sport ( sorry business ) is loath to see its biggest star / income generator fade....

Human cloning..Is it illegal ? Me and juNkie got created in a test tube. I got the brains, good looks and a body to die for...he got a penchant for alcohol and inane ramblings
 
Human cloning..Is it illegal ? Me and juNkie got created in a test tube. I got the brains, good looks and a body to die for...he got a penchant for alcohol and inane ramblings

Separated at birth, well petri dish, and though you are correct about how mother nature divided up our talents. She was kind enough to give me a big ...... How's the 'look at my brain' thing been working out for u with the ladies?
 
Separated at birth, well petri dish, and though you are correct about how mother nature divided up our talents. She was kind enough to give me a big ...... How's the 'look at my brain' thing been working out for u with the ladies?

Ok ok you got me there. I only got 9"
Can't have everything
 

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