Assen TT - Rnd 8 2015 - SPOILERS

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Jumkie said:
I remember you. I don't think this place is going to be hospitable sorry, the problem always start because we all think we regurgitate what we deem as sensible, then somebody disagrees and throws a dart. That's when the war starts. Ha!
Click to expand...

I highly doubt at it's zenith this place could have been that bad.

But of course I say that having once belonged to a forum where people would threaten to buy plane tickets so they could fly to another member's state or country to beat the .... out of them for having differing opinions.

Hell I posted Craigslist ads in the UK with one of the moderator's phone number for the business he owned to ensure he would get bombarded with phone calls for a certain item because he kept threatening me.
 
ratdeal said:
What you say JPS has merit.

I think the additional corner entry slide has been made possible for the Yamaha due to the new gearbox. It would seem that the seamless box allows for a more linear slide, as opposed to a jerkier, less controlled slide by banging down the box. Much more composed.

Marc's issue could be that he is over-riding in order to compensate (he was already at the limit last year), and as a result he is confusing the fact that the bike feels less controlled with the fact that HE is less controlled in trying to make up time on corner entry. Of course its going to feel different when you are on the verge of a crash every corner...

He's just struggling to understand that suddenly the playing field has been leveled, when in previous years he had a clear advantage and everyone worshipped him thinking he was a demi-god whilst our only reference was riding laps with numb fingers.
Click to expand...

I honestly believe we've probably hit on what the real problems are with MM, between you, myself, Jum, and Arria. I think it's only a matter of time before Kropo starts writing articles with some of this stuff and attributes it to "source speaking under the expectation of complete confidentiality".
 
Haha!

Kropotkin's views are generally agreeable.

I don't think a lot of what we see is unseen by the rest. They just choose to ignore what they see and believe what they hear instead, either whispered by their second personalities subconscious chosen rider lust, or because some pillock with a paddock pass claimed its gospel.
 
Hahaha, no doubt. As to the forum being bad, it never really was, except for all the NannyK-eshs saying it was/is. If u have the thickness of skin less than rice paper than you'll cry foul.
 
Back onto Dani, I really do think that Sachsenring is his chance to shine. If anything I just want to see him finish ahead of Marc. We've already seen the cracks in his cheerful facade. I think if we see Dani gain confidence and start asking questions of Marc we will begin to see how he deals with a level of pressure he hasn't yet encountered.

All early indications, particularly where Rossi is concerned have shown that actually, his ability to rationalise defeat is flawed at best. And that is with the world and his dog pointing the finger of blame bizarrely in the direction of the bike. No one genuinely questioned if he was the problem.

Throw Dani into the mix and we will see what this kid is really made of. Could this be the deconstruction and rebuild we saw with Lorenzo in his first couple of seasons, or will he keep pushing beyond the limits of acceptability in the name of total self belief and do something really stupid?
 
I tend to agree with Jum that Dani is going to be a hard ask to be the yardstick by which MM will be judged. I hope I am wrong but I am not optimistic.

ratdeal said:
Marc has mentioned more than once that the bike is too sensitive to rider error. This may be correct, however he is the only rider who rides in such a loose manner. Dani however displays greater mechanical sympathy in my opinion. Could it be that the bike just isn't happy to be ridden this loosely and with what seems to be incompatible set-up compromises to allow this style, and actually the performance potential is higher if kept closer its optimum performance parameters, i.e, not ridden around the 105% mark with a compromised set-up, but closer to the 99-101% range using the optimum one?

We could well see that a precision riding approach actually coaxes the bikes true character out, and Marc just isn't capable of riding a machine that requires a more considered approach.

If Dani does beat Marc, I'd be interested to see how he responds as he is experiencing a tough moment, and everyone seems to have blind faith in him despite seeing the obvious every weekend. That Marc has clear weaknesses inherent to his riding style that he can't change.
Click to expand...

Like it or not Dani's 'style' of riding has produced NO championships for HRC in almost a decade. MM's on the other hand...

Kinda begs the question, if your scenario that the bike likes the 99-101% rather than the 105%, why would Honda move in that direction when it favours "greater mechanical sympathy" and their rider least likely to win them a championship? Why not move in a direction which favours the favourite?

Obviously MM displays a petulant resistance to altering his style/strategy (if bin-it-or-win-it is a strategy) and is paying the price, but even you have indicated that at least some level of blame lies at the feet of HRC for not providing the ideal tool.
 
Mick, I don't think it's as easy as saying we are going to fine tune the space shuttle for Marc or Pedro ' s style. Though if we are to believe HRC was trying to do that, making it more aggressive should have favored Marc's style. After all, we were led to believe the more aggressive RCV was precisely what Marc exploited so marvelously. So why not give him more of that juju? In fact some said Lorenzo would have suffered on an RCV while Marc wouldnt have been as effective on a M1, referring to its characteristics. You get what I'm saying?
 
Last edited:
Absolutely get it! I have no doubt HRC was trying to improve the bike and trying to improve it in a direction which helps their main threat. And it seems to have improved... a wee bit... over a single lap most noticeably. Race distance has been tougher.

Do we believe that HRC makes engineering improvements to the RCV randomly? Based only on data? Based on rider input? Based on their goals? Logically the RCV should have been better for MM this year but, as rat has pointed out, it may favour a more 'genteel' style... Maybe they're thinking of hiring Jorge next year and launching Dani!
 
Last edited:
Nah man. Once Dorna get VR his 10th, it's retirement time. Then Yamaha can focus on Jlo. :)
 
Ya think? If he get's 10 then he's gonna want total wins from Ago... Might have to pry his arthritic hands off the 2020 M1!!
 
Mick D said:
Kinda begs the question, if your scenario that the bike likes the 99-101% rather than the 105%, why would Honda move in that direction when it favours "greater mechanical sympathy" and their rider least likely to win them a championship? Why not move in a direction which favours the favourite?
Click to expand...

That's an interesting point. I seem to recall in 2009/10 ish that some 250/Moto2 riders who tested the Ducati and were saying it's not that bad a bike, but were 2/3 seconds off Stoners pace? And rightly so, many people said on here "Sure, any GP bike is easy to ride 2 seconds off the pace!"

So maybe Dani isn't having the issues that Marky is having because as you say he's pushing 95% whereas Marc is pushing that much harder to expose the knife edge issues of the RCV?
 
Agree, and of course there is that other way of looking at it, the bike will give u 100%, Pedro rides at 99%, Marc at 100.000001.


Stoner himself said something similar #22. Do u remember when he complained the new front Bstones was too "squeeshy". Others said, no its not. Then he said, but you're slower than me so you're not forcing it to fold like I am. Then everyone called him a whiner. (Well actually everyone called him a whiner every time he spoke, even when it was truth, then wondered why he said FU I'm going fishin). So you may be on to something there buddy.
 
Last edited:
Jumkie said:
Agree, and of course there is that other way of looking at it, the bike will give u 100%, Pedro rides at 99%, Marc at 100.000001.


Stoner himself said something similar #22. Do u remember when he complained the new front Bstones was too "squeeshy". Others said, no its not. Then he said, but you're slower than me so you're not forcing it to fold like I am. Then everyone called him a whiner. (Well actually everyone called him a whiner every time he spoke, even when it was truth, then wondered why he said FU I'm going fishin). So you may be on to something there buddy.
Click to expand...

...., I wish I'd thought of this example.
 
I have others, but I ain't gonna be Johnny Cockran for Autism Man. You already got me cheering for Pedrobot FFS.

Ok ok, so I'll add, then when the conditions were right, people started crashing on said tire, then people said, well .... kneegrow Stoner was right--these tires do suck. But by that time Stoner had a broken ankle, then blamed Indy (which did end like three other rider's seasons). So everyone forgot Stoner was right. Partly because they didn't have to push said tire to catch up to the mothafucker on account that said ............ was in an ankle brace. Then...said mothafucker retired. The end.
 
Last edited:
Jumkie said:
I have others, but I ain't gonna be Johnny Cockran for Autism Man. You already got me cheering for Pedrobot FFS.

Ok ok, so I'll add, then when the conditions were right, people started crashing on said tire, then people said, well .... kneegrow Stoner was right--these tires do suck. But by that time Stoner had a broken ankle, then blamed Indy (which did end like three other rider's seasons). So everyone forgot Stoner was right. Partly because they didn't have to push said tire to catch up to the mothafucker on account that said ............ was in an ankle brace. Then...said mothafucker retired. The end.
Click to expand...

Isn't it well past your bedtime?
 
Absolutely. And I gotta be up early today. It would help if u stopped texting me on WhatsCrap.
 
JPSLotus said:
Fixed. ;)
Click to expand...


I was being ironic in that we had that discussion (when some deemed it actually worth debating) and the freaking dialog went on for months. One the most historically contentious threads to grace this forum. People were biting heads off and shitting themselves over that topic.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

JPSLotus
2024 Round 14: Gran Premio Pramac dell’Emilia-Romagna - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli
14 15 16
Replies
314
Views
6K
ApriliaRS250
ApriliaRS250
J
2025 MotoGP Schedule
Replies
4
Views
652
PRS717
P
JPSLotus
2024 Round 13: Gran Premio Red Bull di San Marino e della Riviera di Rimini San Marino - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli
21 22 23
Replies
458
Views
9K
320Dave
3
#22
David Emmet: A peek into the soul of Marc Marquez
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
#22
#22
#22
The curse of the second Repsol Honda...
2 3
Replies
49
Views
9K
#22
#22

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top