Assen GP Race Thread (Contains all manner of spoilers!!!)

[chopperman]

I agree, but they will apparently have to officially change the rule for this to occur. My point was that this looks like another rule dorna drew up on a drinks coaster in a tapas bar late at night without thinking through all the ramifications.

As are most Dorna rules. Who with a brain cell would think limiting fuel would make the racing cheaper

What the cost of a litre of fuel compare to the R&D of developing a bike to race on less. I think its more the crack den than the tapas bar !

 

[frizzle]

As are most Dorna rules. Who with a brain cell would think limiting fuel would make the racing cheaper

What the cost of a litre of fuel compare to the R&D of developing a bike to race on less. I think its more the crack den than the tapas bar !

Yeah not the sharpest tools in the shed are they?

 

[chopperman]

Cannot disagree more actually Rog.



The engine is said to have around 200kms on it and was said to have been fitted for this weekend so yes is a 'new' engine, but why should Lorenzo be eligible for a new engine (is my actual question) ?



The argument being put forward in various places is that Lorenzo should not be penalised due to the engine having blown because it lay on it's side after the Bautista incident and as such should be given a new fresh engine.



All that sounds well and good but that then disadvantages every other team out there as Yamaha will then have one less race to concern themselves with regards to engine longevity and thus they then receive an advantage that others are not afforded. On top of that (as has been said elsewhere) it also was in part their own fault for not building into the bikes any cut off to the motor for when it was on it's side to save the motor from exactly what happened.



If the motor is granted (and I hope it is not) thence where does it all stop - what occurs for a rider who is unable to race the following round due to an injury caused by another rider's negligence, should they be given 'bonus points' based upon their usual finish position?



What of a rider who is taken down in practice and damages or destroys a tyre as a result, they they then get additional tyres as compensation etc?



To grant the motor is a can of worms that is never-ending (IMO) and is one that will be further open to the interpretation of 'fault' which as we know is very subjective and far from an exact science.



The rule states that each manufacturer is allowed a specific number of engines per season and as such it is a rule that has to be acknowledged and followed, although with DORNA they change rules often so one can only surmise what may happen.

When i say "new engine" i mean fresh out the create, not one that been used before.

I think its right that Lorenzo should be allowed a new engine if the one that went pop as Assen was a new engine. If this engine has been used in a previous race the rule should not be bent as that's an unfair advantage.

 

[Gaz]

Btw, Kropo is writing Stoner's name on the 2012 trophy...again.

Sorry Jum but I didn't read it that way due to Krops use of the word IF as shown below (and hope Krop does not mind - if so just PM me and I will remove the post Krop)



Despite Stoner's injuries and the Honda's chatter, Stoner is back on track for his title defense. The way he toyed with Dani Pedrosa, waiting for an opportunity to pass before putting the hammer down and leaving him for dead, was a lesson in tactics and managing a race. If Honda find a solution to their problems with the front tire, then the title race could be over pretty quickly, despite the fact that Jorge Lorenzo is in the form of his life



Source - http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/06/30/2012_assen_motogp_saturday_round_up_of_t.html



Whilst yes it is a more positive comment of Stoner's situation he is not yet giving Stoner the title IMO

 

[chopperman]

Sorry Jum but I didn't read it that way due to Krops use of the word IF as shown below (and hope Krop does not mind - if so just PM me and I will remove the post Krop)



Despite Stoner's injuries and the Honda's chatter, Stoner is back on track for his title defense. The way he toyed with Dani Pedrosa, waiting for an opportunity to pass before putting the hammer down and leaving him for dead, was a lesson in tactics and managing a race. If Honda find a solution to their problems with the front tire, then the title race could be over pretty quickly, despite the fact that Jorge Lorenzo is in the form of his life



Source - http://motomatters.c...nd_up_of_t.html



Whilst yes it is a more positive comment of Stoner's situation he is not yet giving Stoner the title IMO

I'm sure with articles like this Krop will soon be best buddy's with the neo's again.

 

[Gaz]

When i say "new engine" i mean fresh out the create, not one that been used before.

Rog, had a thought that was what you meant but as a clarification point the engine that went pop had not been used (reportedly) on any previous race weekend as this was it's first outing , so to me that is a 'new from the crate' engine as they would not use a completely fresh engine without prior running in a race .............. surely

 

[chopperman]

Rog, had a thought that was what you meant but as a clarification point the engine that went pop had not been used (reportedly) on any previous race weekend as this was it's first outing , so to me that is a 'new from the crate' engine as they would not use a completely fresh engine without prior running in a race .............. surely

You say this engine had done 200km. Do you know in what manner these miles were covered. Was it running in miles/free practice or quali?

 

[Gaz]

You say this engine had done 200km. Do you know in what manner these miles were covered. Was it running in miles/free practice or quali?

No idea Rog.



It was reported that the motor that went pop had completed around 10% of it's lifecycle which was said to be 2000-2400 kms.



I would assume that it may have been bench tested, then placed in the bike for some running during practice starting Thursday - but again, this is simply web reported stuff with nothing official from Yamaha reported as being the source.

 

[michaelm]

I'm sure with articles like this Krop will soon be best buddy's with the neo's again.

Won't matter much if jorge continues to beat him.

 

[J4rn0]

Stoner will win the title. Hey, he's the fastest rider, and he's on the Repsol Honda -- and Honda can solve problems (probably already sorted at Assen).

 

[chopperman]

No idea Rog.



It was reported that the motor that went pop had completed around 10% of it's lifecycle which was said to be 2000-2400 kms.



I would assume that it may have been bench tested, then placed in the bike for some running during practice starting Thursday - but again, this is simply web reported stuff with nothing official from Yamaha reported as being the source.

What ever Dorna and the other big wigs do it has to be fair, even if Lorenzo does get a pen for using an extra engine. At the end of the day the Manufactures could fit a device that switches the engine off when the bikes on its side. They don't because it would stop riders picking up the bike and re-joining the race. Its there choice so they have to take the rough with the smooth. If this engine is considered fresh then maybe he should get the extra engine. Trouble is how many other riders have been effected like this but given no extra allowance?

 

[Jumkie]

Gaz, that quote reeks of Stoner's name engraving. You stuck on the word "if"? Well no ...., its not actually Kropo going himself to chisel the name onto the trophy buddy. Read between the not so subtle lines. Seriously, we debating this? Its overwhelming positive, just like his article after Jerez and Estoril. What are you expecting, for Kropo to post a picture with him inscribing Stoner on the sheetmetal?



Rog, maybe they should give a new engine, tire, fairings, leathers, gloves, helmets, etc. to every victim who's been torpedoed by a ........ rider .... up. Not sure why you think giving an engine to JLo is ok, even if it was fresh out of the crate. Race Direction, not sure if improved, are ......... for even telling Jlo this .........



Mikem, I don't get your take on this. Is it a stupid rule because in this case it screwed up Jlo's title hopes? Spanish fuckers (and Italian ones) have been torpedoing people for years. This rule has no relevance here except that the idiots at Race Direction put their feet in mouth suggesting to what I guess was an attempt to 'right a wrong'. If they want to seriously deter this kind of .... (my guess is they don't), maybe a rule immediately imposed: any ...... crashing into somebody in turn one of any race is banned for 3 races. Lets see how many ..... risk it after that. The point of my "racing incident" pictorial was to show how only when somebody deemed important is torpedoed does Race Direction give a .....

 

[chopperman]

Gaz, that quote reeks of Stoner's name engraving. You stuck on the word "if"? Well no ...., its not actually Kropo going himself to chisel the name onto the trophy buddy. Read between the not so subtle lines. Seriously, we debating this? Its overwhelming positive, just like his article after Jerez and Estoril. What are you expecting, for Kropo to post a picture with him inscribing Stoner on the sheetmetal?



Rog, maybe they should give a new engine, tire, fairings, leathers, gloves, helmets, etc. to every victim who's been torpedoed by a ........ rider .... up. Not sure why you think giving an engine to JLo is ok, even if it was fresh out of the crate. Race Direction, not sure if improved, are ......... for even telling Jlo this .........



Mikem, I don't get your take on this. Is it a stupid rule because in this case it screwed up Jlo's title hopes? Spanish fuckers (and Italian ones) have been torpedoing people for years. This rule has no relevance here except that the idiots at Race Direction put their feet in mouth suggesting to what I guess was an attempt to 'right a wrong'. If they want to seriously deter this kind of .... (my guess is they don't), maybe a rule immediately imposed: any ...... crashing into somebody in turn one of any race is banned for 3 races. Lets see how many ..... risk it after that. The point of my "racing incident" pictorial was to show how only when somebody deemed important is torpedoed does Race Direction give a .....

Well the parts and kit you have listed above are not limited by rules but i take your point. I did say give him a new engine if his assen one was fresh but after debating the variables and implications in this thread i know find myself say on the fence. Anyway, why are you still up. Cant you sleep?

 

[chopperman]

wtf is going on with this site. Hit the reply button once and get quoted post rather than edit. Strange !

 

[Jumkie]

Well the parts and kit you have listed above are not limited by rules but i take your point. I did say give him a new engine if his assen one was fresh but after debating the variables and implications in this thread i know find myself say on the fence. Anyway, why are you still up. Cant you sleep?

Thanks for noticing. No I can't sleep. Pain and problems on my mind. So I come here to relax. Been on my back for a couple days now compa. That magic Chinese juice isn't found in the US. Went today to see Chow Ming, they gave me tea and said .... off (but not after a massage). Which was nice though no happy ending; so didn't do .... for me. So its me, my computer, and the black night as company for my sorrows.

 

[Garbin]

All first lap "racing incidents" vs ...



Takahashi torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13759:Takahashi.jpg]



Kallio torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13760:Kallio.jpg]



DeAngelis torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13761eAngelis.jpg]



Lorenzo torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT (yes, see Australian GP, don't recall Jlo calling to suspend himself)

13762:Lorenzo.jpg]



Bautista torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13763:Bautista.jpg]





Bautista torpedoes Lorenzo: HANG THE MOTHAFUCKER! Penalty not enough, race ban him!

13764:Buatista Lorenzo.jpg]



EDIT: my point...may be a bit too subtle.

Jumkie, I think what you have provided is irrefutable evidence that Nicky just gets in the way of other riders at the first corner

PS Sorry to hear about the back problems

 

[Jumkie]

Jumkie, I think what you have provided is irrefutable evidence that Nicky just gets in the way of other riders at the first corner

Yeah, I've been told. I've never checked, but its got to be some record.

 

[SackWack]

Aside from all the other .... going on I have to say Amazing ride by Spies. And .... all y'all that come out talking .... about him after this race. He should have come in to the pits after his tire chunked away like another rider did but he gutted it out. He easily had Dovi and everyone is quick to cast judgement before the fact come out.

 

[chopperman]

Thanks for noticing. No I can't sleep. Pain and problems on my mind. So I come here to relax. Been on my back for a couple days now compa. That magic Chinese juice isn't found in the US. Went today to see Chow Ming, they gave me tea and said .... off (but not after a massage). Which was nice though no happy ending; so didn't do .... for me. So its me, my computer, and the black night as company for my sorrows.

acupuncture may have been better than a massage. Jeez that's foreplay rather than medicinal

 

[michaelm]

Mikem, I don't get your take on this. Is it a stupid rule because in this case it screwed up Jlo's title hopes? Spanish fuckers (and Italian ones) have been torpedoing people for years. This rule has no relevance here except that the idiots at Race Direction put their feet in mouth suggesting to what I guess was an attempt to 'right a wrong'. If they want to seriously deter this kind of .... (my guess is they don't), maybe a rule immediately imposed: any ...... crashing into somebody in turn one of any race is banned for 3 races. Lets see how many ..... risk it after that. The point of my "racing incident" pictorial was to show how only when somebody deemed important is torpedoed does Race Direction give a .....

Emotional rather than logical consistency jumkie, remembering how pissed off I was when stoner similarly lost 25 (or 30) points last year I didn't want lorenzo to suffer the points loss and the double disadvantage of losing a new engine from his allocation.



I am not big on the engine rule anyway, I think it is another one that only theoretically saves money or evens competition, since it likely favours honda who could probably go a season on 2 or 3 engines, and screwed ducati as you have argued. I take the point of those who have argued that to some extent the engine loss may be down to yamaha electing to have more chance of continuing in a race after an off though.



I am a biased stoner fan who is happy for stoner to take any advantage honda can give him within the rules, as other winners of championships for honda have done previously, but don't want him to win by jorge being taken out or losing an engine through no agency of his or yamaha's.