Assen GP Race Thread (Contains all manner of spoilers!!!)

[Jumkie]

All first lap "racing incidents" vs ...



Takahashi torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13759:Takahashi.jpg]



Kallio torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13760:Kallio.jpg]



DeAngelis torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13761eAngelis.jpg]



Lorenzo torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT (yes, see Australian GP, don't recall Jlo calling to suspend himself)

13762:Lorenzo.jpg]



Bautista torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13763:Bautista.jpg]





Bautista torpedoes Lorenzo: HANG THE MOTHAFUCKER! Penalty not enough, race ban him!

13764:Buatista Lorenzo.jpg]



EDIT: my point...may be a bit too subtle.

 

[frizzle]

All first lap "racing incidents" vs ...



Takahashi torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13759:Takahashi.jpg]



Kallio torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13760:Kallio.jpg]



DeAngelis torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13761eAngelis.jpg]



Lorenzo torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT (yes, see Australian GP, don't recall Jlo calling to suspend himself)

13762:Lorenzo.jpg]



Bautista torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13763:Bautista.jpg]





Bautista torpedoes Lorenzo: HANG THE MOTHAFUCKER! Penalty not enough, race ban him!

13764:Buatista Lorenzo.jpg]

You forgot the incident from Jerez last year. Way too late on the brakes & took out the championship leader. (sound familiar?)

Not a first corner incident but similar thing. Just be consistent race control. Either give them all a penalty or give none of them one.

Bautista screwed up big time but it was a mistake just like last year at Jerez. He should have got a good talking to & left it at that.

Penalise all or penalise none.

 

[Jumkie]

You forgot the incident from Jerez last year. Way too late on the brakes & took out the championship leader. (sound familiar?)

Not a first corner incident but similar thing. Just be consistent race control. Either give them all a penalty or give none of them one.

Bautista screwed up big time but it was a mistake just like last year at Jerez. He should have got a good talking to & left it at that.

Penalise all or penalise none.

No, I didn't forget that one, I just wanted to distinguish between first lap incidents. If I included Jerez 11, then I'd have to include Estoril 06, and, and, and....lost count.

However, my opinion is they should all be penalized. That is the point I was trying to make, but it seems to have got lost a bit. First turn incidents are special, way too ....... early for people to get their panties all wet. I agree, that Jerez incident should have been reviewed as much as the Estoril incident, but honestly, had I included them I think we would have lost half our audience. Lorenzo is guilty of a first turn incident (PI), and took out Hayden and himself. Normally people just chalk this .... up to "racing incidents" but I disagree. If we penalized these fools more, they would be more careful on lap one when tires are cold. But again, its favortism at work! And for Race Direction to initially promise him an engine? Are you ....... kidding me? What was that about? They also gonna consider giving back points to the victims, that sounds fair, but impossible to administer. Who knows, the Dorna rules, not only dumb but written in dry erase boards.

 

[hawkdriver]

Indefensible what happened to rossi's and spies' tyres. Reminiscent of that day when more widespread failure/delamination of the tyres cooked michelin's goose as someone said elsewhere.



I am going to do what jumkie has done elsewhere in regard to ducati and defend bridgestone at least a little. They didn't want a control tyre, have been inveigled into supplying it to the whole field for free( which probably saved dorna who were subsidising the satellite teams some money), and had a tyre with their long term technology last year which they have changed at the request of others. I am not even sure that the cold performance of last year's tyre was all that bad, there was a preponderance of new track surfaces and unusually cold weather, and perhaps riders with an expectation that with the current electronics, tyre technology etc there should be no need to warm tyres up, just as stoner has perhaps been riding in the expectation/belief that tyres shouldn't wear out this year.



I think the tyre situation re stoner makes sense to me now, unsurprisingly it is arrabiatta who has made sense of it for me. It has been said elsewhere as well, apparently the hrc factory riders have effectively only one tyre choice, the harder tyre chatters too badly, so they have to hope conditions suit the soft. It looks as though stoner may have ridden differently this race, he certainly did tactically, and preserved the tyre better, but if jorge had been there going faster as is his wont stoner might still have worn the softs out because of the pace necessary to stay with jorge. The rider is the difference where jorge is concerned as jumkie rightly says, but you have to wonder whether yamaha went with the wrong tyre choice anyway, given dovi's pace relative to the factory hondas.

BS seem to be using data from what the track was like the previous year to make the current tires and this year the track was much hotter, I think they said by ten degrees and supposedly this was what caused the high heat destroying the tires. The weather has had a huge impact on the racing this year, hopefully BS learn from this.

 

[Gaz]

Guys, while it is true and fair to call for consistency, let us not forget that this year we have a new race direction team and the test is now how they react to future incidents given that the bar has been set.







And FWIW, all IMO here it was a racing incident with dire consequences .............. punishable yes and deserved but not sure of what would be sufficient at this stage as I just cannot make up my mind on it.

 

[mad mick]

All first lap "racing incidents" vs ...



Takahashi torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13759:Takahashi.jpg]



Kallio torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13760:Kallio.jpg]



DeAngelis torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13761eAngelis.jpg]



Lorenzo torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT (yes, see Australian GP, don't recall Jlo calling to suspend himself)

13762:Lorenzo.jpg]



Bautista torpedoes Hayden: RACING INCIDENT

13763:Bautista.jpg]





Bautista torpedoes Lorenzo: HANG THE MOTHAFUCKER! Penalty not enough, race ban him!

13764:Buatista Lorenzo.jpg]

You make a valid point. I don't think we should be all marching Alvaro to the gallows this time around. The fact that George has had a great season so far and has worked hard to gain a worthy 25 point advantage, probably inflames the incident towards a more emotional, rather than rational perspective.

 

[frizzle]

Jum I've watched that PI incident many times over & I think Kallio caused that incident as much as Lorenzo did. He came across from wide on the track & left little room for Lorenzo who clipped the back of Hayden.

Having said that Lorenzo was probably a little late on the brakes too, but if he had racing room he could have missed Niky's bike.

 

[Jumkie]

Jum I've watched that PI incident many times over & I think Kallio caused that incident as much as Lorenzo did. He came across from wide on the track & left little room for Lorenzo who clipped the back of Hayden.

Having said that Lorenzo was probably a little late on the brakes too, but if he had racing room he could have missed Niky's bike.

I don't remember Lorenzo blaming Kallio. But like Kallio, he did try to pass blame on Hayden. Not buying it. From memory (as I commit all torpedoes on Nicky to memory as I'm sure you do similar with Stoner incidents): "I didn't expect Nicky to brake so soon." Oh yeah Jorge, well, that's what people do going into turn one mothafuker, LORENZO GUILTY!

 

[Gaz]

Jum, I just gotta ask.



Has Nicky ever ...... up in racing terms?

 

[Ngads]

I don't remember Lorenzo blaming Kallio. But like Kallio, he did try to pass blame on Hayden. Not buying it. From memory (as I commit all torpedoes on Nicky to memory as I'm sure you do similar with Stoner incidents): "I didn't expect Nicky to brake so soon." Oh yeah Jorge, well, that's what people do going into turn one mothafuker, LORENZO GUILTY!

True that brother...lorenzo flipped out, as expected but there really should be no penatly. This .... happens. It sucks but that's the way it is. Turn one incidents are the name of the game. We can all think of a ton, 2006 elias and rossi anyone? i dont believe there was any penalty with that. Like i said, .... happens. correct me if i am wrong (drinks blur my memory)

 

[hawkdriver]

Jum, I just gotta ask.



Has Nicky ever ...... up in racing terms?

He once torpedoed another Duc rider but he didn't use the bike!!! That was a freaky highside

 

[Jumkie]

He once torpedoed another Duc rider but he didn't use the bike!!! That was a freaky highside

Hahaha, oh yeah. I wouldn't call it a "torpedo though, more like 'Intercontinental Missile'. That was crazy. I'm gonna look for a pic. Who was the other Duc rider, it was a sat Duc as I remember. Crazy ...., flight through the air and landing on the other guy's back as I recall. But that was during a practice, not a race, right.



Gaz, not of the epic nature we are accustom to remembering. Most the .... we remember is so bone headed that people recall for a while.



Found it. German qual. Highsides in the wet, and landed on the other guy's back. hahaha



13766:NH qual Germany.jpg]



Sweet, found a video. But i gotta say, it was DeAngelis (fruity helmet mf) he hit, so its ok. In fact, they should give Nicky some kind of reward.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9A8AL_FLeo

 

[mad mick]

That's an awesome crash! It's like Nicky got catapulted into that other guy! Crashes are always fun when the riders pick themselves up, dust them selves off, then walk away... Thankfully, that's precisely what happened here.

 

[hawkdriver]

That's the one, I remember watching it live and thinking did that really just happen. It's amazing that these guys can race as long as they do with the punishment they take.

 

[Jumkie]

Btw, Kropo is writing Stoner's name on the 2012 trophy...again.

 

[michaelm]

Btw, Kropo is writing Stoner's name on the 2012 trophy...again.

Saw that. It may be that all 3 things I mentioned/wished for pre-race happened, that stoner rode the soft tyre better, that honda with or without his input improved the chassis, and that he rode with a more positive attitude, but a 4th factor, a spanish torpedo, was still possibly the most important.



I think he may be more competitive with jorge at least on the soft tyre now, in that a different strategy has been successful for him against riders other than jorge who were giving him some trouble, and that he has perhaps realised he has strong pace, or has found strong pace, on the soft tyre. It probably also depends how motivated honda are, I don't know how new the chassis for this race was, but it seems they can build a new chassis almost at will, which yamaha have said they are not prepared to do even if they can.

 

[chopperman]

Another example of the law of unintended consequences operating with a dorna rule.

I think its right that Lorenzo should be allowed a new engine if the one that went pop as Assen was a new engine. If this engine has been used in a previous race the rule should not be bent as that's an unfair advantage.

I think cal maybe realising the spies ride may go Dovi's way. It's was a shame cal got duffed up at the start as im sure he would have finished higher.

Brilliant pass by Stoner on Pedrosa, pure class.

Equal points... Game on.

 

[michaelm]

I think its right that Lorenzo should be allowed a new engine if the one that went pop as Assen was a new engine.

I agree, but they will apparently have to officially change the rule for this to occur. My point was that this looks like another rule dorna drew up on a drinks coaster in a tapas bar late at night without thinking through all the ramifications.

 

[frizzle]

Btw, Kropo is writing Stoner's name on the 2012 trophy...again.

Not sure how, seeing Lorenzo virtually didn't get a chance to race.

If he did he would probably have a 30 point lead as we speak.

Sachsenring is a track Pedrosa usually excels at. It will be interesting to see if he can get his first win for the year here.

If he doesn't win here he may not win anywhere in 2012. It's also a track that tends to be hard on tyres. We should learn a lot from next weekend.

 

[Gaz]

I think its right that Lorenzo should be allowed a new engine if the one that went pop as Assen was a new engine.

Cannot disagree more actually Rog.



The engine is said to have around 200kms on it and was said to have been fitted for this weekend so yes is a 'new' engine, but why should Lorenzo be eligible for a new engine (is my actual question) ?



The argument being put forward in various places is that Lorenzo should not be penalised due to the engine having blown because it lay on it's side after the Bautista incident and as such should be given a new fresh engine.



All that sounds well and good but that then disadvantages every other team out there as Yamaha will then have one less race to concern themselves with regards to engine longevity and thus they then receive an advantage that others are not afforded. On top of that (as has been said elsewhere) it also was in part their own fault for not building into the bikes any cut off to the motor for when it was on it's side to save the motor from exactly what happened.



If the motor is granted (and I hope it is not) thence where does it all stop - what occurs for a rider who is unable to race the following round due to an injury caused by another rider's negligence, should they be given 'bonus points' based upon their usual finish position?



What of a rider who is taken down in practice and damages or destroys a tyre as a result, they they then get additional tyres as compensation etc?



To grant the motor is a can of worms that is never-ending (IMO) and is one that will be further open to the interpretation of 'fault' which as we know is very subjective and far from an exact science.



The rule states that each manufacturer is allowed a specific number of engines per season and as such it is a rule that has to be acknowledged and followed, although with DORNA they change rules often so one can only surmise what may happen.