Assen 2016

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Gaz said:
Hey kids ............. fwiw some people may well have lives, some may not have seen the so called tow, some may have been having ... with their partners rather than hands, ...., some may even have been at Shovel's club

Not everyone sits and watches coverage of practice, not all countries get free to air coverage for us cheapskates and not all wish to contribute to the DORNA keeping things yellow coffers.

Give it time and you will get your answers as people come on and give their two bobs worth, but in reality not many whinged about the tow that you guys are so fascinated by but many made mention that it was not the first such occurrence where MV had been in front and seemingly towing VR. What supposedly happened in practice, is that Dovi's virginity now gone with a tow from the great one?

Oh, and I have not seen anything aside from a few moment or crash highlights and reading timesheets
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Wow, so some of you are only part-time Rossi haters if you aren't even wiling to purchase a videopass subscription to keep up with what he does to hate him for. Maybe if Rossi gets his 10th championship this board will taking the hating to the next level and purchase a subscription. Cheapskates.
 
moto vudu said:
Wow, so some of you are only part-time Rossi haters if you aren't even wiling to purchase a videopass subscription to keep up with what he does to hate him for. Maybe if Rossi gets his 10th championship this board will taking the hating to the next level and purchase a subscription. Cheapskates.
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Call me what you want -- if hater fits your description of a person who does not fawn at the mere mention of Rossi, than hater I am ......... and ....... proudly so if you must know, with reasons stated in this place previously from experiences with the so called great one that have been told to myself directly (not second hand ........ either, experiences of people who work at race meetings, all verified by others)

As for the 10th title, I will say again for you guys just as I have said previously - he will get the 10th title and then retire to be the Yamaha figurehead (use that search function a little and you will see that I have been stating as much for months)

And nope, nothing will get me to waste money on a DORNA pass, I have better things on which to waste my money - besides, all ends up publically available relatively quickly if you know where to look anyway :p
 
Gaz said:
Call me what you want -- if hater fits your description of a person who does not fawn at the mere mention of Rossi, than hater I am ......... and ....... proudly so if you must know, with reasons stated in this place previously from experiences with the so called great one that have been told to myself directly (not second hand ........ either, experiences of people who work at race meetings, all verified by others)

As for the 10th title, I will say again for you guys just as I have said previously - he will get the 10th title and then retire to be the Yamaha figurehead (use that search function a little and you will see that I have been stating as much for months)

And nope, nothing will get me to waste money on a DORNA pass, I have better things on which to waste my money - besides, all ends up publically available relatively quickly if you know where to look anyway :p
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If you have an issue with Rossi using MV for a tow, but don't have an issue with Dovi using Rossi for a tow... you might be a Rossi hater.

The first step is to admit you're a hater, that will free you from having to post BS that really just translates to "I hate Rossi and I'm threatened by his success". You'll be able to freely post what you want such as "Damn, I really wish Rossi didn't qualify so well... I prefer him further back in the grid"
 
I wake up and find yellow jiz sprayed all over the forum. And while I was asleep Rossi won 2 more titles. And much rejoicing JLo is now a mediocre one trick pony.

Do you jizzers think Dovi might have benefitted from the tow? Why didn't 11 times just pull away and take pole, being the fastest greatest winningest rider of all time and all.

All this did was prove the benefit of trying to get a tow. Also proving why JLo gets warned every time Rossi tries to follow him.

Also during the coverage we got a rare shot of Marquez elbow down. Does anyone remember a couple years ago when they had edge grip tires elbow down was the new knee down. The new generation was taking riding styles to extremes. The old brigade were struggling to evolve. Now roll out crap Michelin no grip front wash out tires and it's back to the future, pencil in 10 times 11 times 12 times.

Meanwhile JLo's grippy tires from the Sepang test are locked in the secret area 51 vault. Hey I've got an idea. Let's suddenly bring out new soft edge grip tires and have a democratic rider vote. It's been done before I believe.
 
llAmXAp.jpg


Birdman, do you have some data confirming the same lean angles the riders used on Bridgestones are not possible on the Michelins? You do realize that at some tracks last year, Bridgestone did not have soft edge grip tires?
 
moto vudu said:
Wow, so some of you are only part-time Rossi haters if you aren't even wiling to purchase a videopass subscription to keep up with what he does to hate him for. Maybe if Rossi gets his 10th championship this board will taking the hating to the next level and purchase a subscription. Cheapskates.
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I actually watched qualifying with my videopass, but did not follow any of the sequelae till now, and it seemed to be damp, conditions in which Rossi does well, as Dovi also does, and Lorenzo doesn't now, probably significantly related to an accident he had at some track called Assen in 2013 in such conditions when he fractured his clavicle, perhaps the reason he doesn't have 6 titles now.

I have obviously missed Yamaha complaining about Rossi not getting pole because he gave Dovi a tow, and Dovi signing for the Yamaha factory team next year.
 
michaelm said:
I actually watched qualifying with my videopass, but did not follow any of the sequelae till now, and it seemed to be damp, conditions in which Rossi does well, as Dovi also does, and Lorenzo doesn't now, probably significantly related to an accident he had at some track called Assen in 2013 in such conditions when he fractured his clavicle, perhaps the reason he doesn't have 6 titles now.

I have obviously missed Yamaha complaining about Rossi not getting pole because he gave Dovi a tow, and Dovi signing for the Yamaha factory team next year.
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I stayed up and watched the FP3 session live. It was a dry session and Lorenzo was struggling on the dry tarmac as well. Rossi had already decided he didn't want the new chassis, but Lorenzo was still trying to make up his mind when he had a high speed lowside. Definitely wouldn't have helped his confidence and he missed a significant portion of that session.
 
moto vudu said:
llAmXAp.jpg


Birdman, do you have some data confirming the same lean angles the riders used on Bridgestones are not possible on the Michelins? You do realize that at some tracks last year, Bridgestone did not have soft edge grip tires?
Click to expand...

Did you see the front washing out on a number of riders or not? Are they obliterating lap records with tires that are costantly improving? I fully understand why they are not, obliterating lap records is nice and all but it doesn't improve 'the show' and for sure MotoGP is all show. Did you see Marquez have that massive lock up then later crash and hijack the scooter? Great show. But even he says with these tyres he's had to change style, ride more conservative. Reminds me of F1 actually.

Do you realise that's a pic of one of the young punks? Yes Pol and Marquez and Vinalez ride a much more radical style then say hmmm let me take a guess....... On the other hand where's the pics of Rossi elbow down?

Like I was saying a couple years ago Rossi himself was saying the new radical riding styles were difficult for him to replicate but if he wanted to beat Marquez and Lorenzo he would have to adapt. But he didn't adapt, he doesn't ride radical because with these tires that's not the way to ride. Corner speed has definitely reduced, they all say it.
 
birdman said:
Did you see the front washing out on a number of riders or not? Are they obliterating lap records with tires that are costantly improving? I fully understand why they are not, obliterating lap records is nice and all but it doesn't improve 'the show' and for sure MotoGP is all show. Did you see Marquez have that massive lock up then later crash and hijack the scooter? Great show. But even he says with these tyres he's had to change style, ride more conservative. Reminds me of F1 actually.

Do you realise that's a pic of one of the young punks? Yes Pol and Marquez and Vinalez ride a much more radical style then say hmmm let me take a guess....... On the other hand where's the pics of Rossi elbow down?

Like I was saying a couple years ago Rossi himself was saying the new radical riding styles were difficult for him to replicate but if he wanted to beat Marquez and Lorenzo he would have to adapt. But he didn't adapt, he doesn't ride radical because with these tires that's not the way to ride. Corner speed has definitely reduced, they all say it.
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You don't recall any riders washing out the front last year with the Bridgestones? If I'm not mistaken, the top riders were under lap record pace in the dry FP1 session. Yes, the tires are constantly improving and yes riders have to adapt their style. Why should Michelin try to make their tires exactly like Bridgestones? There should be a different riding style for each brand of tire, that's normal. Part of being a GP rider is having the ability to adapt to changing bike technologies and changing tires. Many riders in the past have been fast on a certain tire brand, but once tires were switched their careers promptly ended.

Have you not been watching Marquez his entire career and witnessed numerous moments he has almost crashed or did crash? His save after locking the front was awesome, but it's somewhat of a typical moment for him regardless of what brand is stamped on the sidewall of his tires.

Same riders that put their elbow down on the Bridgestones are putting it down on the Michelins. Also, a rider putting their elbow down doesn't always mean they're using the most lean angle. Pedrosa often uses more lean angle than Marc, but Marc likely gets his elbow down more because of the way he hangs off the bike.

You are in denial if you don't think Rossi has adapted his riding style. He has made numerous changes to his riding position and techniques and has improved every year. These guys are still putting in faster laptimes than last year when the conditions are comparable to last year.
 
moto vudu said:
If you have an issue with Rossi using MV for a tow, but don't have an issue with Dovi using Rossi for a tow... you might be a Rossi hater.

The first step is to admit you're a hater, that will free you from having to post BS that really just translates to "I hate Rossi and I'm threatened by his success". You'll be able to freely post what you want such as "Damn, I really wish Rossi didn't qualify so well... I prefer him further back in the grid"
Click to expand...

Well, suggest you look back ........ use that search button before you determine that one is a hater as you may well be surprised and/or perhaps even, apologetic to those that you accuse.

But, if one is a hater for not having an issue with rider A's behaviour but having an issue with rider B's behaviour, maybe from time to time one should not look in a mirror lest one be forced to judge thyself.

See this is where those of you so quick to call Rossi hating seem to miss an important aspect as well as many do not hate the rider, but hate the show/personality that is seemingly contrived to benefit those that fall under a spell. Not many here are genuinely dismissing his riding achievements (yes, some will mention favouritism and benefits not afforded others and they are correct ..... the argument there is was it deserved, earnt or given) but many are tired of the overarching ........ that is forced down our throats as a result of the seeming 'rule' that all things VR is good, while all else is bad

Interestingly I do love the comments that this place is a Rossi hating forum for it means that in here we have free thinkers, with opinions that may not be popular to the masses but are just that, opinions. These same people will debate freely, often with facts, figures or long standing beliefs that are often publically available as well as some with personal experiences but because it is not seen as conducive to the masses in yellow it is hating. You and many like you may find the 'Rossi bashing' as you lot want to call it, but then I do not see you calling out the Lorenzo bashing that occurs here or elsewhere either so maybe the world is round afterall, much like all ........ (and I readily include myself as one of the aforesaid ........)
 
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birdman said:
Like I was saying a couple years ago Rossi himself was saying the new radical riding styles were difficult for him to replicate but if he wanted to beat Marquez and Lorenzo he would have to adapt. But he didn't adapt, he doesn't ride radical because with these tires that's not the way to ride. Corner speed has definitely reduced, they all say it.
Click to expand...

mYPpvU2.jpg

e0hhTDw.jpg

1At8FN1.jpg







lGvIAdS.jpg
 
moto vudu said:
You don't recall any riders washing out the front last year with the Bridgestones? If I'm not mistaken, the top riders were under lap record pace in the dry FP1 session. Yes, the tires are constantly improving and yes riders have to adapt their style. Why should Michelin try to make their tires exactly like Bridgestones? There should be a different riding style for each brand of tire, that's normal. Part of being a GP rider is having the ability to adapt to changing bike technologies and changing tires. Many riders in the past have been fast on a certain tire brand, but once tires were switched their careers promptly ended.

Have you not been watching Marquez his entire career and witnessed numerous moments he has almost crashed or did crash? His save after locking the front was awesome, but it's somewhat of a typical moment for him regardless of what brand is stamped on the sidewall of his tires.

Same riders that put their elbow down on the Bridgestones are putting it down on the Michelins. Also, a rider putting their elbow down doesn't always mean they're using the most lean angle. Pedrosa often uses more lean angle than Marc, but Marc likely gets his elbow down more because of the way he hangs off the bike.

You are in denial if you don't think Rossi has adapted his riding style. He has made numerous changes to his riding position and techniques and has improved every year. These guys are still putting in faster laptimes than last year when the conditions are comparable to last year.
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Im not saying they have to make tires like Bridgestone. I'm saying if given the choice or the unprecedented opportunity to 'vote' the majority of riders would vote the same way they did in 2012 at Sepang test. And what they voted for was soft tires with high edge grip.

There was a test this year coincidentally at Sepang where Michelin ran soft tires with high edge grip. A certain rider dominated the test, and as many people predicted those tires appear to have gone into hiding ever since, in favour of the new improved folding front washouts.

If you still don't understand, Valentino Rossi has himself stated back in 2012 he voted for the wrong tire. His stated reason was he was on the Ducati so it didn't matter. Take that for what you want, I personally don't understand why a rider that prefers hard tires would vote for soft, but anyway there was an unintended consequence for Rossi. After that wasted year in 2012 on the Ducati, he returned to Yamaha, where he very quickly found to his horror with the same marshmallow tires he was no match for Lorenzo. Just goes to show the influence the black hoops make.
 
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With those pics MV (as the inner 'hater' comes out), it is actually very hard to judge if he has changed his style appreciably as they are different corners under different circumstances. To be able to truly determine one would need to see pics at the same corner (or corners preferably with right/left views) as then you can compare apples to apples (which would be quite difficult to find within the number of pics of VR)

But, that all said to this observer he has obviously changed the style from the older more classical style of early 2000's to the more 'off the bike' styles of today. Whether he has gone 'full MM' for example I do not believe so as the Yamaha is a totally different bike to the Honda and as such the style required to ride it will be slightly (perhaps largely) different and as such, VR will only adjust that which he needs to be competitive.

IMO only here, but the direction of the Honda is the cause of Pedrosa's woes, and not just the motor as he has stated previously as DP is a more classical style of rider who is struggling to adjust (again IMO, but the Yamaha would likely suit him better as it has been developed around JL/VR's more sedate/classical style)
 
moto vudu said:
mYPpvU2.jpg

e0hhTDw.jpg

1At8FN1.jpg







lGvIAdS.jpg
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Nice try, Rossi truly giving it a go, only problem is the big Bridestone sticker on the front guard. Is it from 2012? Wouldn't surprise me if this would be one of the races Lorenzo lead every lap, on the high edge grip tires. Like I said, bad for the show when that happens. Now show some pics with M on the guard.

I'm not saying Rossi can't get his elbow down ever, but on high edge grip tires it's well proven he won't match Lorenzo or Marquez. He said it himself, doesn't like soft tires, bad for the show.
 
Gaz said:
Well, suggest you look back ........ use that search button before you determine that one is a hater as you may well be surprised and/or perhaps even, apologetic to those that you accuse.

But, if one is a hater for not having an issue with rider A's behaviour but having an issue with rider B's behaviour, maybe from time to time one should not look in a mirror lest one be forced to judge thyself.

See this is where those of you so quick to call Rossi hating seem to miss an important aspect as well as many do not hate the rider, but hate the show/personality that is seemingly contrived to benefit those that fall under a spell. Not many here are genuinely dismissing his riding achievements (yes, some will mention favouritism and benefits not afforded others and they are correct ..... the argument there is was it deserved, earnt or given) but many are tired of the overarching ........ that is forced down our throats as a result of the seeming 'rule' that all things VR is good, while all else is bad

Interestingly I do love the comments that this place is a Rossi hating forum for it means that in here we have free thinkers, with opinions that may not be popular to the masses but are just that, opinions. These same people will debate freely, often with facts, figures or long standing beliefs that are often publically available as well as some with personal experiences but because it is not seen as conducive to the masses in yellow it is hating. You and many like you may find the 'Rossi bashing' as you lot want to call it, but then I do not see you calling out the Lorenzo bashing that occurs here or elsewhere either so maybe the world is round afterall, much like all ........ (and I readily include myself as one of the aforesaid ........)
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i very definitely hate what Rossi has done to the sport.
 
birdman said:
Im not saying they have to make tires like Bridgestone. I'm saying if given the choice or the unprecedented opportunity to 'vote' the majority of riders would vote the same way they did in 2012 at Sepang test. And what they voted for was soft tires with high edge grip.

There was a test this year coincidentally at Sepang where Michelin ran soft tires with high edge grip. A certain rider dominated the test, and as many people predicted those tires appear to have gone into hiding ever since, in favour of the new improved folding front washouts.

If you still don't understand, Valentino Rossi has himself stated back in 2012 he voted for the wrong tire. His stated reason was he was on the Ducati so it didn't matter. Take that for what you want, I personally don't understand why a rider that prefers hard tires would vote for soft, but anyway there was an unintended consequence for Rossi. After that wasted year in 2012 on the Ducati, he returned to Yamaha, where he very quickly found to his horror with the same marshmallow tires he was no match for Lorenzo. Just goes to show the influence the black hoops make.
Click to expand...

Soft edge grip tires don't really go into hiding, they can only be used at certain tracks and in certain conditions. VR and MM are able to be quick in a wider operating spectrum than Lorenzo. Lorenzo needs to work on closing that hole in his game, but he probably doesn't believe he has any holes in his game.

When Rossi returned to Yamaha, his biggest issue was that he couldn't brake without bottoming out the forks. Rossi's strength is in braking zones, Lorenzo's strength is corner speed. Give Rossi a bike with a frontend that doesn't provide good feel or he's bottoming out the forks and he'll go nowhere fast. Give Lorenzo tires with no edge grip and he goes nowhere fast.


Why do some here like to refer to the hard option tires as Rossi tires that have been cooked up to provide him an advantage, but they never refer to the softs are Lorenzo tires?
 
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moto vudu said:
Why do some here like to refer to the hard option tires are Rossi tires that have been cooked up to provide him an advantage, but they never refer to the softs are Lorenzo tires?
Click to expand...


I would suspect for the very reasons Birdman pointed out ............ near all riders voted for the soft tyre option.

Then one decided that he needed or preferred the harder compound.

Plus, you have the various comments from VR about his familiarity with Michelin tyres due to his experience of riding on them for years.
 

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