AMA SBK - Round 9 - NJMP

Looks like we lost a few threads about AMA and WSBK this weekend. Sorry if they were intentionally removed, feel free to remove again, I suppose.





AMA SBK Race 1 resutls



Hayden gets robbed by the red flag!!!!







AMA DSB Race 1 Results



Top 3 in championship separated by 5 points.

DSB Race 2 Results



Epic last lap









SBK Race 2 Results



Race goes down to the last lap, Hopper finally gets himself on the box

Was Eslicks move on the last lap fair play. I have mixed feeling about it. Its one of those moves that if your a fan of the guy making it, its great. If your a fan of the guy that got punted, your furious. Herrin did an unbelievable job keeping the bike on the track. The Cardenas move on the next to last lap would have gone down in racing history had he made it stick, instead it cost him 2-3 positions.

povol said:

Was Eslicks move on the last lap fair play.

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Hard to say, isn't it? Door was open, but that was the epitome of a late pass. Josh appeared to be pretty pissed after the race. Imo, the pass on Hacking last year at Mid Ohio was a lot rougher than this move on Herrin. Hacking said fair play, but I'm not sure he really cared enough to pass judgment.



One way or another, a star is being born. People love Eslick, but Herrin is probably the more driven and dedicated of the two of them. Schwantz vs. Rainey? The similarities are pretty striking right down to the make of motorcycle. People at NJMP definitely got their money from DSB and I think you'll be happy to admit it didn't require a Buell to get it done.



P.S. not saying Danny or Josh are legends

As much as I want to like Eslick his career will always be stained by his brief stint on the cheating Buell.

At the beginning of the year I said that if Herrin doesn't finally live up to his potential and win the championship than it's time to write him off.

This year he has been consistent every single week and he's done enough to win the championship so even if he loses I feel confident that his career is still moving foward.

If Eslicks pass was in moto gp there would be mindless 10 pages of back and forth bopper drivel. I didn't like it but I've seen Herrin do the same ..... I think Herrin Cardenas and Eslick race each other like this so frequently and are used to it that it's become fair play to the 3 of them. If they accept it and are willing to continue it then I'm ok with it.

I look foward to Barber. It's should be the best racing we've seen all year

I am not an Eslick fan and fromt the first angle they showed that pass/contact....I thought it was dirty. When they showed the replay of them entering the corner......Herrin left the inside wide open and Eslick took it. I was just not too keen on the corner exit with Eslick swinging out wide pushing Herrin out since Elsick knew Herrin would be there. It also did not look good IMO for Eslick to throw that fit of a celebration right after that move....kinda rubbing it in and a bit unsporting if you ask me.



I hope Herrin sweeps Barber and takes the title with Cardens taking second.



I don't see Elsick shining in the Superbike class.....so I guess he better get it while he can with DMG

JohnnyKnockdown said:

As much as I want to like Eslick his career will always be stained by his brief stint on the cheating Buell.

At the beginning of the year I said that if Herrin doesn't finally live up to his potential and win the championship than it's time to write him off.

This year he has been consistent every single week and he's done enough to win the championship so even if he loses I feel confident that his career is still moving foward.

If Eslicks pass was in moto gp there would be mindless 10 pages of back and forth bopper drivel. I didn't like it but I've seen Herrin do the same ..... I think Herrin Cardenas and Eslick race each other like this so frequently and are used to it that it's become fair play to the 3 of them. If they accept it and are willing to continue it then I'm ok with it.

I look foward to Barber. It's should be the best racing we've seen all year

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You know bro, DSB as been the best racing this year bar no series, and the superbike race wasn't so bad either (though I hate to see Tommy lose close ones). For a while we had a leading pack of 10 locked together.





What should have Eslick done on the Buell, quit racing? (You anger is misplaced my friend, it belongs on the cowardly shoulders of Roger Edmud).



They asked Herrin about Eslicks pass "it was fair, I would have done the same thing".



Oh, and the suspension of South African Sellers is ........, cowardly, and unwarranted. We've had Cardenas close to ending people's careers for a few years now, that bonsai move proves the guy is still out of control and rides above his head, but he is connected with Road Racing World, so he won't get touched. What was so bad about Sellers' move remains a mystery to me. Surely not warranting a suspension. Then the AMA officials have the balls to let the dude fly out to this round at which point they cowardly tell him he can't ride. Who ever made this decision is a ....... ..... and reflects the .... still left to flush in the series.

I had DVR'd all the races this weekend and the Daytona races were the most entertaining to watch, was Eslick's move dirty, IMO no, hard racing, I'm sure Herrin has filed that move in his archives and something simliar from him could be forthcoming. Bummed for Hayden but was good to see him and Hayes dice it up at the end.

On a WTF note, what about that crash for Aquino on the first day...holy .... he was lucky.

Jumkie said:

.





What should have Eslick done on the Buell, quit racing? (You anger is misplaced my friend, it belongs on the cowardly shoulders of Roger Edmud).



.

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There lies the problem in my logic. Last year you were lucky to even have a job and I can't fault him for riding the Buell but it still bugs me nonetheless.

Not that he was riding a Buell but that he was riding a bike that clearly didn't belong in the class.

L8 had a good point about his overexuberant celebration after almost putting Herrin in the dirt. That was pretty much a .... you to Herrin. I felt the same last year when he had his overexuberant celebrating after winning on the cheater bike. It seemed like a big FU to all the fans and riders who really knew what was goin on.

Jumkie said:

Oh, and the suspension of South African Sellers is ........, cowardly, and unwarranted.

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It's hard to say what his suspension was b/c we still don't really know why he was suspended. AMA Pro (DMG) looked like they were going to let it slide, but then when Seller arrived on Friday he was excluded from participation. DMG are hiding something, but it's hard to say what. They said his conduct with other riders was bad so does that mean he was trying to have an MMA match with someone in the paddock after a terrible weekend of racing? or is it so simple as Yamaha USA calling up DMG and saying they wanted AMA Pro Racing to send a message to Seller for riding so carelessly?



BTW did everyone hear Eric Bostrom's announcement that he would be campaigning the entire 2011 season? A little bit of good news going into next season. Up until a few weeks ago, I would have assumed that Kawasaki's new ZX-10R, Eric's relationship with attack, and his history with Kawasaki in SBK would all be indicators that Kawasaki were going to be fielding a team next season. However, the latest issue of RoadRacingWorld says that Kawasaki will not return to AMA competition as either a factory team or a private factory-supported team (but they will allegedly offer a nice contingency program). The new deal is supposed to be a surprise so that seems to indicate that someone new is coming? He already said Sho-Air is the sponsor. So what's the surprise? 2 bike Attack team with Sho-Air sponsorship? BMW (who were at New Jersey)? Honda?



Any ideas?

mylexicon said:

or is it so simple as Yamaha USA calling up DMG and saying they wanted AMA Pro Racing to send a message to Seller for riding so carelessly?

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Bingo



How dare Sellars race our Yamaha boys close. Like I said, Cardenas has been close to killing people on his bike, but hey, he's sponsored by RRW. So will give him a pass.



On the EBoz thing, he's been tight lipped , but I'm glad he's returning to racing.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

There lies the problem in my logic. Last year you were lucky to even have a job and I can't fault him for riding the Buell but it still bugs me nonetheless.

Not that he was riding a Buell but that he was riding a bike that clearly didn't belong in the class.

L8 had a good point about his overexuberant celebration after almost putting Herrin in the dirt. That was pretty much a .... you to Herrin. I felt the same last year when he had his overexuberant celebrating after winning on the cheater bike. It seemed like a big FU to all the fans and riders who really knew what was goin on.

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I hear you bro. But his wheelies are more a function of his happy go lucky character than they were poor showmanship in my opinion. He didn't write the rules, and I remember posting that he himself was a victim of the skewed treatment because he deserved to win on a level playing field and he was being denied that opportunity. But look at him now, the dude is winning on what is considered to be the 2nd tier bike of preference, as the Yamaha is by far the best 600cc machine.



Herrin, hahaha, c'mon man guys, he's no Mother Theresa. I've seen him pull similar if not worse moves. Bottom line, they asked him what he thought, he said it was fair and would have done same. Its Cardenas that scares me. Anybody here thinking that move from 4th to 1st to 4th was anything other than a bonsai mistake and out of control is wrong. He over cooked the corner because he was desperate and thought he could get away with charging like other races. Thank god nobody was in his out of control trajectory for he wouldn't have been able to stop his bike.



I distinctly remember a pre-race segment where they asked the top DSB riders who they prefer to race near, they all said Eslick. (I might have it recorded). Yes, Herrin even said, I don't personally like him but he races hard but safe. Cardenas had the same answer and so did two other riders (can't remember their names). If somebody here watches the races as religiously as I do, you guys should remember this segment.

Jumkie said:

Bingo



How dare Sellars race our Yamaha boys close. Like I said, Cardenas has been close to killing people on his bike, but hey, he's sponsored by RRW. So will give him a pass.



On the EBoz thing, he's been tight lipped , but I'm glad he's returning to racing.

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Well, Cardenas is definitely untouchable b/c even though he almost killed Tommy Hayden (another Suzuki rider) Suzuki USA probably know that Ulrich is willing to make it public if they tried to get Cardenas suspended. However, Cardenas has been trying to return to SBK for some time, and JU continues to tell him that the funding isn't available. Suzuki might have told Ulrich behind the scenes that they don't want further carnage in SBK from Cardenas.



Also, we have yet to see what Ulrich will do in response to this announcement. He routinely takes up the case for other riders, and IIRC he took up the case for JRP and a bunch of guys caught up in the jump-start debacle at Road Atlanta in 2009. JU is not a Yamaha man so he may take up the case for Sellers just to needle Yamaha USA for what he believes are dirty tactics. I hope he leaves DMG alone only b/c Atlas seems to be working his ... off to get things sorted, and AMA cannot afford to lose Yamaha under any circumstances which means that DMG is going to be understandably susceptible to their influence for the time being. Not saying that DMG have immunity, just that the financial outlook is so poor, that it might be better to let Yamaha USA have their way than run the risk of them starting an MIC breakaway with Honda. Plus, Yamaha USA just landed that fat deal with UPS for racing activities.



It appears that Yamaha have bought into the B2B sponsorship model that DMG uses to fund racing activities, imo, they have the leverage with DMG to get favors. UPS is a very good brand to have in the AMA paddock.

Jumkie said:

I distinctly remember a pre-race segment where they asked the top DSB riders who they prefer to race near, they all said Eslick. (I might have it recorded). Yes, Herrin even said, I don't personally like him but he races hard but safe. Cardenas had the same answer and so did two other riders (can't remember their names). If somebody here watches the races as religiously as I do, you guys should remember this segment.

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Probably because he is the one guy always in the lead pack that rarely takes the win even with the Buell advantage....Race 1 at NJMP is an example of this. Runs up front for most of the race and then fades back to a top 5 spot. This year he has gotten 2 wins from someone else making a big mistake (Rapp at Infineon, Herrin at Mid Ohio).

Im defenitely not defending Herrin because I think he's a bit bonsai at times but like I said these guys seem to be ok with racing each other so agressively so If they're not going to ..... about it than I certainly won't.

Once again I have to try to talk some sense into all you Bosppers. The very reason I do not watch Superbike this year is because it is a stagnant pool of overaged midpack riders. I really have no interest in watching a bunch of guys who couldn't even get a look at the podium 2 years ago suddenly be in contention for a championship. The Bostroms are poster boys for underachievement. The factories have repeatedly shunned young talent to put these two quitting losers on a SBK( see Mladins OTT interview where he calls B Boz out for quitting every week).

I really don't understand how so many of you find any redeeming quality from these two ON THE RACETRACK. They are bad for the future of the AMA. The sport needs an injection of youth and fresh faces.

I can only think that most of you forgot how great it was watching a young Nicky Hayden barnstorm his way into the sbk class when he was just a 19-20 year old kid

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Im defenitely not defending Herrin because I think he's a bit bonsai at times but like I said these guys seem to be ok with racing each other so agressively so If they're not going to ..... about it than I certainly won't.

Once again I have to try to talk some sense into all you Bosppers. The very reason I do not watch Superbike this year is because it is a stagnant pool of overaged midpack riders. I really have no interest in watching a bunch of guys who couldn't even get a look at the podium 2 years ago suddenly be in contention for a championship. The Bostroms are poster boys for underachievement. The factories have repeatedly shunned young talent to put these two quitting losers on a SBK( see Mladins OTT interview where he calls B Boz out for quitting every week).

I really don't understand how so many of you find any redeeming quality from these two ON THE RACETRACK. They are bad for the future of the AMA. The sport needs an injection of youth and fresh faces.

I can only think that most of you forgot how great it was watching a young Nicky Hayden barnstorm his way into the sbk class when he was just a 19-20 year old kid

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I agree, but the youth have got to beat the incumbents. If BBoz and EBoz and Hayden and Hayes are all dropped for unproven young talent, it might make things fresh and fun, but it is important to have old riders b/c generally they are not as susceptible to the red mist which means that young riders can't learn to rely on mistakes from the competition. Generally speaking, young guys and old vets end up battling in the midpack b/c the guys in their prime 24-30 are at the pointy end pushing the limits. Imo, the real problem with the AMA is it doesn't have any riders in their prime. Top 5 in AMA SBK is Hayes, Hayden, Zemke, BBostrom, and Pegram. Average age of that crew is 34 years old (?). Positions 6-10 is Young, Knapp, Ulrich, McCormick, Clark. Excepting Ulrich, average age is 21 years old.



AMA has a lost generation. Hopper is the only AMA champion in his prime who also has a full time ride, but he's been injured much of the season. The only other AMA champions in their prime are RLH (WSBK), Ben Spies (MotoGP), Nicky Hayden (MotoGP), Aaron Gobert (ASBK), and Danny Eslick (DSB). Those are the only guys from the younger generation who were able to beat the BBoz, EBoz, Mladin, Zemke, Hayes, Duhamel, Yates, and Hacking contingent.

FACTORY said:

Probably because he is the one guy always in the lead pack that rarely takes the win even with the Buell advantage....Race 1 at NJMP is an example of this. Runs up front for most of the race and then fades back to a top 5 spot. This year he has gotten 2 wins from someone else making a big mistake (Rapp at Infineon, Herrin at Mid Ohio).

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Thats not what they meant. But u know better right? A mistake in DSB can mean 1st to 6st in a corner. Hs been caught out but nonetheless hes leading points? Why? Because he finishes. Cardenas has more DNFs than Eslick has wins. U gonna try and convince me this is superior riding when u crash? U may not like Eslick but hes smarter, and more consistent, lets not talk entertaining. Fact is he races hard but not stupid like Cardenas. I like Herrin and hes the guy im rooting to come 2nd. If Slick does win i know it wont change ur mind, but hes the class of the field. People got a bit twisted with the Buell but fact is that bike also had deficientcy. It had trouble stopping for one. And the bike didnt ride itself. Even on the Buell that title was not a gift, if u think so ur very ignorant my friend. Btw, he wasnt the only one on the Buell that year, the other one was nowhere to be seen. Get over last year.



Back to this year, Eslick runs at the front at will, fact. That he doesnt manage for the win, i'll give u that. That he wins only because its a gift from others mistakes, uhm no response as i dont hav time for silly statements motivated by some negative emotion u harbor. (Or im i reading u wrong and u really mean to express disappointment rather than disgust, in which case i dont mean to go ballistic).

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Im defenitely not defending Herrin because I think he's a bit bonsai at times but like I said these guys seem to be ok with racing each other so agressively so If they're not going to ..... about it than I certainly won't.

Once again I have to try to talk some sense into all you Bosppers. The very reason I do not watch Superbike this year is because it is a stagnant pool of overaged midpack riders. I really have no interest in watching a bunch of guys who couldn't even get a look at the podium 2 years ago suddenly be in contention for a championship. The Bostroms are poster boys for underachievement. The factories have repeatedly shunned young talent to put these two quitting losers on a SBK( see Mladins OTT interview where he calls B Boz out for quitting every week).

I really don't understand how so many of you find any redeeming quality from these two ON THE RACETRACK. They are bad for the future of the AMA. The sport needs an injection of youth and fresh faces.

I can only think that most of you forgot how great it was watching a young Nicky Hayden barnstorm his way into the sbk class when he was just a 19-20 year old kid

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Im actually rooting for Eslick but im split for Herrin. Mainly because if Herrin does win i need him to vacate his seat to make room for Benny Solis Jr.



About us Bozboppers (good one dude ). Yeah i hear u. Theyre not only one that r old, u know Hayes is old too yet leading points, prob gonna win. Fact is no young guns r beating these old men



U used Mladin to make ur point? Hahaha u really dint like Bozbros. .... Mladin, or as Ben Spies refers to him " that mothafucker". Haha.

Jumkie said:

Im actually rooting for Eslick

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Same. I want Danny to take it down so the Buell stuff can be put to rest. Then I hope he graduates to Superbike. RMR really wouldn't have to do much more than switch from GSX-R600s to GSX-R1000s. I guess it's up to Geico. They pay the bills, and they know Danny will always run at the front in DSB.

Jumkie said:

Thats not what they meant. But u know better right? A mistake in DSB can mean 1st to 6st in a corner. Hs been caught out but nonetheless hes leading points? Why? Because he finishes. Cardenas has more DNFs than Eslick has wins. U gonna try and convince me this is superior riding when u crash? U may not like Eslick but hes smarter, and more consistent, lets not talk entertaining. Fact is he races hard but not stupid like Cardenas. I like Herrin and hes the guy im rooting to come 2nd. If Slick does win i know it wont change ur mind, but hes the class of the field. People got a bit twisted with the Buell but fact is that bike also had deficientcy. It had trouble stopping for one. And the bike didnt ride itself. Even on the Buell that title was not a gift, if u think so ur very ignorant my friend. Btw, he wasnt the only one on the Buell that year, the other one was nowhere to be seen. Get over last year.



Back to this year, Eslick runs at the front at will, fact. That he doesnt manage for the win, i'll give u that. That he wins only because its a gift from others mistakes, uhm no response as i dont hav time for silly statements motivated by some negative emotion u harbor. (Or im i reading u wrong and u really mean to express disappointment rather than disgust, in which case i dont mean to go ballistic).

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I am not pulling for Eslick, but I will say he earned his title last year. I thought racing the Buell vs the 600cc bikes was silly......but that was the rules and all teams agreed to it. It looked to me like the Buell gave Eslick an advantage and really upped his racing (he did not have a previous season anywhere close to his 2009 Buell ride). I will admit he has done well on the 600 this season (winning races, getting podiums, finishing top 5, having poles, leading/having fastest laps...which he did not do until he had the Buell), and if he does win the title it will help take away the stigma that he had to have the Buell to win.



year class rank points starts wins best fin worst fin avg fin poles laps lead

2010 DSB 2 198 9 1 1 7 3.3 2 48

2009 DSB 1 387 20 6 1 73 7.7 1 107

2008 FX 11 138 7 0 5 23 11.3 0 0

2008 Sport 10 180 10 0 3 37 13.5 0 0

2007 Stock 7 198 9 0 4 21 7.9 0 0

2007 Sport 14 137 10 0 8 53 19.6 0 0

2006 FX 10 156 11 0 3 49 15.7 0 0

2006 Sport 6 231 11 0 3 30 7.9 0 0

2005 FX 3 198 9 0 4 25 8.3 0 0

2005 Sport 13 139 9 0 8 36 16.1 0 0

2004 FX 12 123 6 0 8 12 10.5 0 0

2004 Sport 12 160 11 0 10 39 17.2 0 0

2003 FX 88 0 5 0 21 44 29.2 0 0

2003 Stock 43 20 5 0 19 34 27.6 0 0





I don't know know what it was with the 2009 season but the Buell gave him something (advantage, the confidence to win, the taste of winning) but it transformed him into a front runner. Also, it proves nothing with other Buell riders not winning or finishing high in the points.....look at Rossi and Colin Edwards on the FIAT Yamaha bikes (and Eslick is no Rossi even at the DSB level)