AMA SBK - Round 8 - VIR

Set your DVR's b/c both Saturday races were photo finish caliber, and lot's of significant stuff for the championship.



DSB Race 1



SBK Race 1

man...Herrin got f^cked in the first turn. Fong had a helluva race!!!

One photo finish and an almost-photo finish!



I hope Honda and Kawasaki come back and put Hacking and others in the mix.

Herrin got screwed in Race 1 by another Graves rider. West crashed out of the lead, and Jacobsen crashed while near the front. DSB is so unpredictable b/c you never know when the privateers are going to buy the full-spec equipment and you never know when the 2nd tier riders are going to show up for a scrap.

mylexicon said:

Herrin got screwed in Race 1 by another Graves rider. West crashed out of the lead, and Jacobsen crashed while near the front. DSB is so unpredictable b/c you never know when the privateers are going to buy the full-spec equipment and you never know when the 2nd tier riders are going to show up for a scrap.

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DSB was awesome again.



I wonder if Cory West had words with Herrin afterwards?

Is Hopper broken again?



I saw he was DNS in Race 2, but I don't rmemeber hearing why. I know he crashed in Race 1, but I haven't heard anything about his condition. All we know is that he missed the Race 2 start.



BTW, forgot to give a huge shout to Hayden for keeping the throttle wide open even though he knew he would miss the kink in the straight away. The honeymoon is over in SBK, and the competitive spirit is starting to supersede the goodwill the racers had towards one another when the series was in critical condition at the beginning of this year. Fierce racing always brings in the fans, it's also nice to know that whoever runs at the front is legitimately the best talent in the USA. You could never be sure in the old AMA arrangement, but Ben's performance has clearly demonstrated to all fans and the world that Mladin/Spies were two of the best SBK riders on the entire planet, not just in the AMA.



Hopefully, with the new rules riders won't have to prove themselves in other series to get respect. Nobody knew how good Hayes was until Superglu took a swing at him on the Portimao straight b/c Josh was kicking his ... on a POS Parkalgar Honda.

How does everyone reckon Herrin would do in Moto2, or WSS? I think the kid has talent and possibly could make some waves.

Some of the best racing, barring none (wsb, moto2, for sure MotoGP, etc.)



.000 That pretty much says it all!

L8Braker said:

How does everyone reckon Herrin would do in Moto2, or WSS? I think the kid has talent and possibly could make some waves.

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I don't think he's emotionally stable enough. Sometimes he's mister cool like when he drafted by Eslick at Fontana, or when he collected himself and his emotions after a terrible Mid Ohio crash. However, he also had a rage at Atlanta when he lost it into the kitty litter at the final turn, he kind rode dispassionately (imo) at Laguna after making a major mistake at the corkscrew, and his animated sulking at VIR in race 1 was a little odd as well.



However, if his focus is a bit lax in general, then he can't focus on his failures either. Herrin rebounds very well. The same can be said for Cardenas.



Moto2, I dunno. Inconsistent riders quickly become the pariahs of the paddock. Cluzel and Takahashi are great examples. Both are brow beaten constantly by their teams b/c they break lots of equipment and they don't score consistently like Elias or Iannone. Supposedly, people are turning up the heat on Tomizawa as well now that Suter went out of their way to give him the new aero package.



If Josh raced inconsistently in Moto2, he'd be gone before before he even had a chance to learn the tracks. I suspect he could be successful in the long term, but that would require Dorna subsidizing his career, imo, b/c Americans don't bring sponsors. Since Americans don't bring money or connections, it would be hard for Herrin to get on a top squad like Gresini. Even if Josh proved his metal on a second tier squad, then what? Move into the premier class at 25 years of age, accomplish nothing on a satellite bike, and then retire to WSBK or AMA. Herrin would be putting himself in a position where he might accomplish nothing.

BTW did my eyes deceive me, or did I see Holden in Pegram's pit box?

I think Eslick has the most talent of riders in DSB, his problem is he doesnt know how to finish. Ive lost count how many times hes lost race on last lap.



Herrin showed lots of deyermination in race 2, desperate to erase race 1 disaster. I think his prob may b focusing on a girlfriend and having flashy leathers. Not a bad thing in themselves, but it might indicate wher hes at in maturing process. However, i noticed he forgot to thank his girlfiend on podium interview, usually she is the first to get the shout out. Lets not forget, he is still young.

Watching DMG racing I just can't help but think who could possibly come out of that series and make a good run in the big league's of racing like WSS or WSBK, Moto2, and now even Moto3? I guess guys like Beach, Herrin, Aquino, and Eslick are young enough and talented enough to do it if given proper equipment to compete on, but that's the sad part of it, I don't think riders coming out of DMG can get the goods. RL Hayden has been on a crap bike this year and we will have to see what happens when he races Moto2 at Indy, maybe if he makes a good at Indy better oppurtunities will await him next year?

On another note, I always thought VIR could be a world class facility if the funds were there, but man I have to say after watching first round of the VIR race then watching the Brno race...... I was just dreaming....sheez VIR looked like a back road compared to the super highways of the Brno track.

L8Braker said:

Watching DMG racing I just can't help but think who could possibly come out of that series and make a good run in the big league's of racing like WSS or WSBK, Moto2, and now even Moto3? I guess guys like Beach, Herrin, Aquino, and Eslick are young enough and talented enough to do it if given proper equipment to compete on, but that's the sad part of it, I don't think riders coming out of DMG can get the goods. RL Hayden has been on a crap bike this year and we will have to see what happens when he races Moto2 at Indy, maybe if he makes a good at Indy better oppurtunities will await him next year?

On another note, I always thought VIR could be a world class facility if the funds were there, but man I have to say after watching first round of the VIR race then watching the Brno race...... I was just dreaming....sheez VIR looked like a back road compared to the super highways of the Brno track.

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I'm hoping our top talent will stay in the AMA and achieve something before they go chasing pie-in-the-sky dreams in Europe. If you want to see the poster child for pie in the sky, look at Hopper. Two AMA titles (750SS & FX (1000cc)) by 18. He chased pie in the sky to a crappy 500cc satellite team at a time when the top riders were on 990s, then he got promoted to an abysmal 990 team. I don't fault Hopper for leaving b/c he did make it look like AMA was going to be too easy for him, but Europe didn't do much but destroy his body and give him a pile of gold. If anyone from the AMA leaves for international racing, they won't be lining their pockets with gold which means they could return home like Hopper, but without anything to show for themselves.



Imo, we've got too many kids/parents with delusions of grandeur. Just compare the careers of the current AMA talent to the careers of the recent greats who've gone to Europe. Herrin is 20. By 20 years old Hopper had 2 titles, Nicky had 1 SS title but he was an emerging SBK powerhouse, Spies had an FX championship.



Eslick is 24 IIRC. By 24 Hopper had been in Europe for 5 years. Nicky was an SBK champ and a factory MotoGP rider. Ben was 3x AMA SBK champ and 5x AMA champ total.



There are a lot of people who need to stay in the AMA or return to the AMA, imo.

Jumkie said:

I think Eslick has the most talent of riders in DSB, his problem is he doesnt know how to finish. Ive lost count how many times hes lost race on last lap.



Herrin showed lots of deyermination in race 2, desperate to erase race 1 disaster. I think his prob may b focusing on a girlfriend and having flashy leathers. Not a bad thing in themselves, but it might indicate wher hes at in maturing process. However, i noticed he forgot to thank his girlfiend on podium interview, usually she is the first to get the shout out. Lets not forget, he is still young.

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He is fun to watch, but his style of thrashing, is in my opinion, causing him to come up short at the finish. He loves giving the crowd a show with the crossed up entries and smokey sideways exits, but he he burning up his tires and the smoother riders are getting him in the last few laps. His style leaves no doubt to his dirt track and Super Motard background. If it wasnt for Herrins and Cardenas's mental meltdowns, this thing wouldnt be close.Goes back to the oldest axiom in sport, To finish first, one must first finish.

L8Braker said:

How does everyone reckon Herrin would do in Moto2, or WSS? I think the kid has talent and possibly could make some waves.

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I think he would have the best chance to do well out of the new crop of AMA racers.....he is only in his 4th year and last year was a 2nd place finish (only a 5 point difference) with 4 wins to Eslick on the Buell. Herrin is 20 and Eslick is 24.....Herrin has more potiental IMO, while Eslick is too old (not having a deep resume) to make the jump to the world stage. I think Eslick might be a top 10 rider in AMA Superbike but not much more than that.



Herrin is lucky that he is with Yamaha and this will help him make the jump to a bigger series vs Eslick with Suzuki (nothing if he was still with Buell).



Herrin is a smother rider and he would be will on the big flowing tracks that WSS/Moto2 runs on......Eslick has too much dirt track style and would have to learn to ride smooth (like the 125cc/250ccGP riders) to have a shot at running up front on the world world stage.

I'm not convinced that the Euros are so much better than the Americans, as seems to be the sentiment implied sometimes. I really believe that if the Euros came here, they would have a tough time (and in fact this is evidenced by some who have tried). Likewise, the Americans would struggle in Europe, not because they lack talent, but because they are foreigners to everything and would lack support that the Italians & Spanish enjoy in regards to team & machine quality. Its not like they are eating better protein in Europe, its just a familiarity thing coupled with a lack of clout to be supported. And we only have ourselves to blame in a way, since we haven't had enough American financial backing to make it happen. I guess its like trying to convince Americans that soccer is a good sport, its just not taking off here. (I know, bad analogy, I get that motoracing is so NOT like that .... sport, but the point is that its not popular here and so nobody gives a .... to have their name on the fairings of an American rider in Europe.) But there are a few American companies like Monster and Rockstar that could be patriotic and support some of our best talent. Its just not happening. I suppose they get more value for their advertising dollar by putting a Euro on their payroll for their product to a European market they desperately want to expand, it makes sense.



As far as Herrin, I think he's good enough. And so is Eslick.

Good point Jumkie....we have seen the door swing both ways for the Americans and Europeans with regards to pond crossings and their results in said series. It's very unfortunate that more Americans can't cross the pond with money in hand and compete on decent machinery because I believe the talent level here is on level with our Euro counterparts, maybe not as deep but on par IMO.

I see many Euro's mostly Brits currently in good positions with some possibly making the move to MotoGP and others competing for championships in their current series, but I don't see any Americans coming up thru the ranks and that sucks? Hopefully we start seeing our talent develop here in the next couple of years and we will have some Yanks in the show to root for.



Maybe Gagne will come out of the MotoGP Rookies cup and make something of it? http://www.redbullrookiescup.com/content.php?page=rookies

Finished up watching the AMA races, great stuff from VIR. Both DSB races were outstanding, and SBK race 1 was excellent. VIR is narrow, lacking in rumble strips, with questionable run offs, but certainly makes for some great racing. Watching DSB in turn 1 every lap was alone worth it. Plenty to be said about the racing, bottom line, it was fun to watch.



One thing that hasn't helped the Americans chances of racing in the WSBK or GP series is the lack of any wild-carding when those series have came over here lately. The only American to ride WSS this year was Melissa Paris, and although she is great person and ambassador for women in the sport, we all knew it was a vanity ride. Same goes with SBK, why aren't they wild-carding. Guys like JD Beach should be wild-carding in the 125 at Indy. I'd like to see Herrin wild-card Moto2. Perhaps it is the difference in machinery that is keeping them out? In the end though I'm sure it boils down to money and marketability. An average American riding around in Europe is equally as bad as an average European riding around in the AMA. Only the really good riders can make the jump. and history has shown America's best have done pretty well when doing so.

mylexicon said:

Is Hopper broken again?



I saw he was DNS in Race 2, but I don't rmemeber hearing why. I know he crashed in Race 1, but I haven't heard anything about his condition. All we know is that he missed the Race 2 start.

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Ralph said he spoke to Hopper Sunday morning. John's wrist was hurting badly after the crash; he told Ralph then his starting the race was up in the air.

Bootsakah said:

Finished up watching the AMA races, great stuff from VIR. Both DSB races were outstanding, and SBK race 1 was excellent. VIR is narrow, lacking in rumble strips, with questionable run offs, but certainly makes for some great racing. Watching DSB in turn 1 every lap was alone worth it. Plenty to be said about the racing, bottom line, it was fun to watch.



One thing that hasn't helped the Americans chances of racing in the WSBK or GP series is the lack of any wild-carding when those series have came over here lately. The only American to ride WSS this year was Melissa Paris, and although she is great person and ambassador for women in the sport, we all knew it was a vanity ride. Same goes with SBK, why aren't they wild-carding. Guys like JD Beach should be wild-carding in the 125 at Indy. I'd like to see Herrin wild-card Moto2. Perhaps it is the difference in machinery that is keeping them out? In the end though I'm sure it boils down to money and marketability. An average American riding around in Europe is equally as bad as an average European riding around in the AMA. Only the really good riders can make the jump. and history has shown America's best have done pretty well when doing so.

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I think the money has dried up for having wild card rides like they used to. Only 2 to 3 years ago MotoGP teams would have serveral wild card riders at Laguna.....Spies for Suzuki, R L Hayden and Hacking for Kawasaki, Chaz Davies for Ducatiand Duhamel for Honda. Now wild card riders are just to fill in for an injured contracted rider....and MotoGP is the only series that is having injured riders this year (and I hope it stops at that!!). Plus, I guess it helps keep the 6 engines allowed all in one piece.



WSBK and WSS and feeling the crunch as well....Yamaha won the WSS title last year and now does not have a team on the grid. It seems only riders with experience on those bikes are getting the fill in rides (de Angelis, Yoshikawa, R L Hayden, Akiyoshi)