2012 Jerez Test Thread

[Jumkie]

The top 5-6 riders in the world are in GP at present time

Disagree. The top rider in the world, happens to be in GP. The rest are interchangeable.



Biaggi/Pedro/Melandri/ Lorenzo/ etc.



I mean, if Cal is midpack, then lets throw in Rea, Halsam, Hopkins, etc. Aoyama was trading with the midd packers in GP, same in Wsbk.



Anyway, all speculation until you get them to line up. If I was going to put them all on a Sbk grid, my money would be on Spies/Stoner/Nicky/Rossi.

 

[lil red rocket pilot]

Disagree. The top rider in the world, happens to be in GP. The rest are interchangeable.



Biaggi/Pedro/Melandri/ Lorenzo/ etc.



I mean, if Cal is midpack, then lets throw in Rea, Halsam, Hopkins, etc. Aoyama was trading with the midd packers in GP, same in Wsbk.



Anyway, all speculation until you get them to line up. If I was going to put them all on a Sbk grid, my money would be on Spies/Stoner/Nicky/Rossi.

Hopefully Cal won't be midpack this season and chasing the top four ATM! Not that I see the top four changing anytime soon.

 

[Mr Squiggle]

Disagree. The top rider in the world, happens to be in GP. The rest are interchangeable.



Biaggi/Pedro/Melandri/ Lorenzo/ etc.



I mean, if Cal is midpack, then lets throw in Rea, Halsam, Hopkins, etc. Aoyama was trading with the midd packers in GP, same in Wsbk.



Anyway, all speculation until you get them to line up. If I was going to put them all on a Sbk grid, my money would be on Spies/Stoner/Nicky/Rossi.

What a croc.....Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedro, Rossi and Spies are without doubt the best riders in the world. In other words as Pov rightly pointed out the top 5-6 riders in the world are in MotoGP.



Stoner and Jlo are pretty equally skilled....Stoner probably has more raw speed but l cant see how anyone could rate Lorenzo as being inferior to ANY current rider on the SBK grid. Dani is faster than anyone on his day. Rossi is struggling on a bike that doesnt suit him but is a bona fide genius on a motorcycle and Ben is the only non-alien to win a race in the past few years. They are called Aliens for a reason....and Spies is knocking on the door asking to be let in.

 

[cliche guevara]

The message in your post which I think you're missing is 'parity'. Checa on Haslam's bike wouldn't be beating Haslam, much less winning races. Same goes with GP. Did Stoner suddenly become a guy who looked like he could win 10 plus races on a Ducati? No. But he sure can on a Honda. Apart from the four top bikes in GP, the rest are not going to win races, period. In Wsbk, Checa's Ducati and Biaggi's Aprillia could make Abraham a race winner in Sbk.

that abraham kid that almost beat crutchlow on the worst of the ducatis?



give the kid some credit, he may have a rich daddy but you can take nothing away from a guy that competes with the tech3 guys in his rookie year on a satellite duc

 

[stiefel]

Its NOT three separate issues, but rather derivatives of the same Rossi vs Stoner ......... Stoner has engaged in a bit of the fun and games, but despite that, he remains an admirable and phenomenal talent that is human like the rest of us. This is not to be confused with the crap the neobops spew and the arguments that ensue. The neobops, who engage and perceive it all through their new boner shades, have turned it all into a Stoner conspiracy. The neobops perceive everything through those lenses. They took the factual description of processional racing as an attack on Stoner, then perceived the CRTs part of some conspiracy to slow him down, not to mention they jumped on boarding calling it as bad because, well Casey said it was bad. Then they erroneously called it "production" racing. Which is a derivative of this idea that the series was perfect when it was self described "prototype” not realizing its just an arbitrary rules driven series where the CRTs are simply a consequence of rules (as ambiguous as they may be). You may recall that there has been outcry by spectators and riders alike to get rid of technology aids, so was that a call to 'dumb down' the series? Yet today, any attempt to limit cost through limiting technology is some attempt at slowing down Stoner, again, just another derivative of the same ......... Casey mentions he had chatter problems in Sepang and the neobops come out saying there is a tire conspiracy against Stoner. Notice they haven't cried about it lately? Why? Answer, because Casey didn't complain about chatter at Jerez. So what happened to the tire conspiracy? I guess it evaporated just like the weight change conspiracy. I wonder what will be the next Stoner related conspiracy? I'm sure Mental and his cohort will present us with one soon. ...., even when Stoner is toping the sheets and winning races, there is no lack of some ........ they will present.



Now a few of these neobops lining up with Mental's ........ take that he has supposedly championed some sort of quest for GP marketing, which in reality was derived from his attempt to continue his forum career of blaming everything on Rossi (I guess the others missed that part which wasn't lost on me). Lets forget that the world went through an economic meld down that Dorna (as much as they are blame worthy for many aspects) can't possibly be held responsible for everything. The price to compete was simply out of control (when leasing a 2nd tier bike reaches 3 million, we have a problem, how this was Rossi fault is beyond me) and in fact Dorna did do something about this problem by reducing the MSMA's influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_theorem

 

[povol]

Disagree. The top rider in the world, happens to be in GP. The rest are interchangeable.



Biaggi/Pedro/Melandri/ Lorenzo/ etc.



I mean, if Cal is midpack, then lets throw in Rea, Halsam, Hopkins, etc. Aoyama was trading with the midd packers in GP, same in Wsbk.



Anyway, all speculation until you get them to line up. If I was going to put them all on a Sbk grid, my money would be on Spies/Stoner/Nicky/Rossi.

And who would that be in your opinion

 

[michaelm]

Disagree. The top rider in the world, happens to be in GP. The rest are interchangeable.



Biaggi/Pedro/Melandri/ Lorenzo/ etc.



I mean, if Cal is midpack, then lets throw in Rea, Halsam, Hopkins, etc. Aoyama was trading with the midd packers in GP, same in Wsbk.



Anyway, all speculation until you get them to line up. If I was going to put them all on a Sbk grid, my money would be on Spies/Stoner/Nicky/Rossi.

I guess cal is 26 now, but he isn't 36; he has a wild style and such riders have been known to take a while to mature/reach their peak in the past, and his wsbk performance may not have reflected his potential. Even someone like wayne rainey had an unsuccessful 250 season at age 24.



Taking a line through spies and most of the current wsbk field, and spies and hayden against mladin, spies and hayden would be ahead of the current riders in wsbk. You would have to think rossi would be at least with them given his superbike form against peak colin edwards, and relatively recent sorting of the yamaha superbike when recovering from his fracture. Stoner and lorenzo on superbikes is more speculative, lorenzo not having really ridden anything like one, and stoner being fairly raw when on the lcr honda if that was anything like a superbike. You would think they would be good on general principles if melandri, checa, biaggi etc are up there.

 

[michaelm]

double

 

[povol]

Speed's gotta be the worst coverage I've seen anywhere... feel for ya. Speed cannot be helping in an effort to grow the sport in NA. I can watch live curling and nordic biathlon in equatorial SE Asia, but you cannot get full world championship racing coverage live. And the freakin' commercials!

This is what i just saw when i went to Speed TV Motogp programming page. Get them up to date Dennis.

• 
  
  []MotoGP World Championship
  
  []
  
  The world’s best riders compete around the globe on high tech 800cc prototypes designed and built by the top engineers that Ducati, Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki have to offer, each capable of speeds well in excess of 200mph and boasting acceleration unrivaled in any other form of roadracing, two or four wheeled.
  

 

[povol]

Disagree. The top rider in the world, happens to be in GP. The rest are interchangeable.



Biaggi/Pedro/Melandri/ Lorenzo/ etc.



I mean, if Cal is midpack, then lets throw in Rea, Halsam, Hopkins, etc. Aoyama was trading with the midd packers in GP, same in Wsbk.



Anyway, all speculation until you get them to line up. If I was going to put them all on a Sbk grid, my money would be on Spies/Stoner/Nicky/Rossi.

Buried deep in that whacky synapse of yours , you just admitted to yourself that at least 4 of the top riders are in GP

 

[Mick D]

This is what i just saw when i went to Speed TV Motogp programming page. Get them up to date Dennis.

• 
  
  []MotoGP World Championship
  
  []
  
  
  
  The world’s best riders compete around the globe on high tech 800cc prototypes designed and built by the top engineers that Ducati, Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki have to offer, each capable of speeds well in excess of 200mph and boasting acceleration unrivaled in any other form of roadracing, two or four wheeled.
  

Hahahaha!!! Maybe they're showing replays!

 

[Jumkie]

Buried deep in that whacky synapse of yours , you just admitted to yourself that at least 4 of the top riders are in GP

No, I'm speculating the top riders in GP would not be the "aliens" most think would fair as well given they lined up on a Sbk grid. Knowing what I know of the South, I wouldn't expect you to understand the nuance of language, given the region's overall intelligence. Those four riders are in GP, between those four of all the GP riders, I'd pick them to be the best on a Sbk. Did you forget that's what we were comparing? I don't buy into this idea of the "four aliens" of GP being the best in either GP or Sbk, that is what I'm rebutting. The lessons of 2011 continue to be ignored; parity, as obvious as is the reality in GP, continues to be missed.

give the kid some credit, he may have a rich daddy but you can take nothing away from a guy that competes with the tech3 guys in his rookie year on a satellite duc

Cliche, that is what I am saying buddy. I'm saying given a top tier machine, Abraham would do much better than we think. Most people have been tricked into buying into this 'alien' theory of top riders yet fail to see the connection that they are also on far and above better packages. Again, the lesson of Rossi/Ducati 2011, once considered THEE Alien. Why parity continues to be overlooked in either on a forum such as this is beyond me. I agree with you about sat-Duc, and will go even further, the sat-Ducs should be more akin to CRTs, whereas, the sat-Yam is better compared to the sat-Hondas.

 

[beefsupreme]

I'm saying given a top tier machine, Abraham would do much better than we think. Most people have been tricked into buying into this 'alien' theory of top riders yet fail to see the connection that they are also on far and above better packages.

An interesting illustration came up at Assen last year, when Aoyama was able to use Pedrosa's bike. He finished 8th, not his best, but better than most of his results. Enough to threaten for wins or podiums? Forget it.



I'm not too fond of the term aliens myself, but since 2008 when Lorenzo started racing, 2 races have been won by someone other than Stoner, Rossi, Lorenzo or Pedrosa. Those three (Rossi's done) are well ahead of the others in terms of race pace weekend to weekend.

 

[povol]

No, I'm speculating the top riders in GP would not be the "aliens" most think would fair as well given they lined up on a Sbk grid. Knowing what I know of the South, I wouldn't expect you to understand the nuance of language, given the region's overall intelligence. Those four riders are in GP, between those four of all the GP riders, I'd pick them to be the best on a Sbk. Did you forget that's what we were comparing? I don't buy into this idea of the "four aliens" of GP being the best in either GP or Sbk, that is what I'm rebutting. The lessons of 2011 continue to be ignored; parity, as obvious as is the reality in GP, continues to be missed.









Cliche, that is what I am saying buddy. I'm saying given a top tier machine, Abraham would do much better than we think. Most people have been tricked into buying into this 'alien' theory of top riders yet fail to see the connection that they are also on far and above better packages. Again, the lesson of Rossi/Ducati 2011, once considered THEE Alien. Why parity continues to be overlooked in either on a forum such as this is beyond me. I agree with you about sat-Duc, and will go even further, the sat-Ducs should be more akin to CRTs, whereas, the sat-Yam is better compared to the sat-Hondas.

Dude, you said the best rider in the world was in GP, the rest were interchangeable. Then you picked 4 GP riders you would bet on. Three of them were purported aliens. Nice try, but you contradicted yourself. I will ask again, who do you consider to be the best rider in the world, then we will proceed on who you would interchange with the rest.

 

[Kropotkin]

May be, thats your facts. Noyes is a CRT apologist, you want facts



Here are some facts. Moto 2 machines are still woefully slower than 250 Gp machines. Im talking waaaaaaaaaaay slower.



250 Qatar race time 40 min 16 sec



Moto2 " race time 40 min 38 sec



-------------------------------------------------



250 2009 Estoril race time 44 min 04 sec



Moto2 2011 Estoril Race time 44min 46 seconds



-------------------------------------------------------------------



250 2009 Catalunya race time 41min 09 sec



Moto 2 2011 Catalunya race time 41min 38 sec



----------------------------------------------------------------

250 2009 Brno race time 41 min 06 sec



Moto 2 2011 Brno race time 41min 13 sec

----------------------------------------------------------------



250 2009 Indy race time 45min 43sec



Moto2 2011 Indy race time 45 min 50 sec



------------------------------------------------------------

250 2009 Valencia race time 44 min 10 sec



Moto2 2011 Valencia race time 46min 22 sec.



Both races classified dry, but if memory serves me last year Valencia was mixed bag of weather .





So, those are the tracks where everything was equal as far as laps run and dry track. Does Moto 2 equal 250 times, the answer is clearly no.. The 250 was a superior race bike.

Weather report:



2011 Estoril: variable, we had clouds blowing in and out and it had rained.

2011 Catalunya, the same. Cleared up nicely later, but the day started badly. 125 races was well over 1 minute slower

2011 Brno, 125 race was a couple of seconds slower than 2009. Weather hadn't been fantastic

2011 Indy. Marbles. Resurfaced track. Everyone bitching and whining about it. IMS press people putting in a massive effort to quell popular dissent

2011 Valencia: went wet/dry, dried out a lot. Ant West nearly podiumed. Enough said.



Cherry picking. Look it up.

 

[cliche guevara]

Cliche, that is what I am saying buddy. I'm saying given a top tier machine, Abraham would do much better than we think. Most people have been tricked into buying into this 'alien' theory of top riders yet fail to see the connection that they are also on far and above better packages. Again, the lesson of Rossi/Ducati 2011, once considered THEE Alien. Why parity continues to be overlooked in either on a forum such as this is beyond me. I agree with you about sat-Duc, and will go even further, the sat-Ducs should be more akin to CRTs, whereas, the sat-Yam is better compared to the sat-Hondas.

ah ok , totally agree with the above.also tech 3 have become quite a good team (or received good bikes)in the last few years

 

[beefsupreme]

Cherry picking. Look it up.

Well, he admitted to only seeing a single Moto2 race last year. Poor fella can only compare time sheets.

 

[Keshav]

Weather report:



2011 Estoril: variable, we had clouds blowing in and out and it had rained.

2011 Catalunya, the same. Cleared up nicely later, but the day started badly. 125 races was well over 1 minute slower

2011 Brno, 125 race was a couple of seconds slower than 2009. Weather hadn't been fantastic

2011 Indy. Marbles. Resurfaced track. Everyone bitching and whining about it. IMS press people putting in a massive effort to quell popular dissent

2011 Valencia: went wet/dry, dried out a lot. Ant West nearly podiumed. Enough said.



Cherry picking. Look it up.

 

[Kropotkin]

Oh, and by the way, I loved the 250s, and still do. They were the perfect racing motorcycle. But they were economically unsustainable without a paddock awash with sponsorship money. If the sponsors were lining up to back teams, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Gaz]

Oh, and by the way, I loved the 250s, and still do. They were the perfect racing motorcycle. But they were economically unsustainable without a paddock awash with sponsorship money. If the sponsors were lining up to back teams, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Very true Krop, and as somewhat of an insider (well, at least you get a bit more info than we do), are DORNA trying to seek sponsorships at a corporate level or is this being left to the individual teams (talking in terms of the overall sport here)?



Asking for obvious reasons as for my thinking there is sponsiorship that is the responsibility of the teams to source and then that of the governing body, so just wondering what (if any) DORNA are doing in that aspect









Gaz