2010 Estorol "RACE" thread

[rossiofsky]

Go away Tom. Considering two things, one, that bike was designed for Loris, 2nd, that win was in the wet, and you know, even Anthony West lead a race, and would have prob won had it not been for a arbitrary "jump the start" (of the same kind not called at Motegi) then I'd give the edge to Nicky. Why not, if its about splitting hairs on points, then I'll go with that.

There you go again, "splitting hairs " ??, that's bs you split there, nothing more. The rules were changed Last year and i,m sure you know that, but you thought it's better to ignore it.



about the Capirossi and Hayden, it wasn't only 1 win, he had 3 more podiums also. but in last 5 years, Hayden has won a greater thing and that's the championship in motogp.

 

[Tom]

Yes, and its these steps that ended up being money out of rossi's pocket and ending up in lorenzo's when the money was supposed to be for other things !

It's not like the money was actually taken away from Rossi and given to Lorenzo. If Rossi hadn't taken that paycut then the Yamaha race team budget would have been 5 million smaller because Lorenzo needed to be paid appropriately regardless. It's not about money its about status, its the fact that Yamaha actively tried to stop Lorenzo leaving when Rossi had told them to do the opposite.

 

[Talpa]

What a load of ......... Rossi and Burgess may have a better career record than anyone on the grid but that doens't mean they are the best until someone has matched their career long numbers. Forcada and Lorenzo are currently better than Burgess and Rossi, surely anyone can understand that

How so? they have to prove they can do it multiple times against different opposition on different spec machines, and with different manufactures. As this is what Burgess and Rossi have done, have they not..........or is it easy to forget the past to suit your POV?



Lets look at a head to head comparison shall we?



Since Jorge Lorenzo has been at Yamaha in Motogp he has won 1 title

13 wins

33 podiums





Since Jorge Lorenzo has been at Yamaha his Teammate Valentino Rossi has won 2 titles

17 wins

39 podiums





I doubt that anyone, other than detractors, would say something as stupid as Forcada and Jorge are better than Rossi and Burgess at present.





This type of .... was said quite a lot in mid-late 2007 as well...........

 

[chopperman]

It's not like the money was actually taken away from Rossi and given to Lorenzo. If Rossi hadn't taken that paycut then the Yamaha race team budget would have been 5 million smaller because Lorenzo needed to be paid appropriately regardless. It's not about money its about status, its the fact that Yamaha actively tried to stop Lorenzo leaving when Rossi had told them to do the opposite.

So who was giving altermatums then ? according to your last couple of posts it appears it was Lorenzo !

 

[FACTORY]

That's odd, because Rossi said his move to Duc: "No, its not about the money." That's a fact jack. So who is lying?

If Rossi did give back money (or hold off on demanding more) to put more into the bike budget, and if the Ducati contract is the same as Yamaha was offering as far as money amount....then it would not be about the money. It would seem that it was more about the equal or even unequal treatment if Yamaha took that "budget money" and stuffed it in Lorenzo's contract. I guess it would be like your wife saying don't spend the money on me, put it towards our future (pay down the house/put in retirement fund..ect) and you turn around and spend that money on a stripper with lap dances and gifts. It would be hard to have faith in your partner once they did something like that. So I would have to say Rossi is not lying.



Rossi is the only guy in the modern era to leave a title winning team (and he has now done this twice) so he has either real big balls to take such a gamble each time or he knows he can move to the new bike and make it work just as well as his last rides. Too bad Lorenzo did not head to Honda or Ducati last year when he had contract talks and briefcases of money thrown his way....if he is so much better than Rossi, then he should have no problem leaving the Yamaha M1 and dominating the field.



I think it is great that Rossi moved to another bike....it changes things up, gets people interested in the sport, it brings in more money to a drying up grid. we usually only see riders move to a different ride when they have a crap year and the team kicks them out or the rider blames the tean looking for a better ride. Rossi leaving a title winning team twice in his career is kinda cool in my opinion.





side note....some people might consider Capirossi leaving Ducati for Suzuki after Marlboro Ducati 2007 title might count as leaving a title winning team/bike.

 

[Tom]

I doubt that anyone, other than detractors, would say something as stupid as Forcada and Jorge are better than Rossi and Burgess at present.

In the 2010 season Lorenzo/Forcada has been better than Rossi/Burgess. It is simple, it is not detracting because as you say we all know this is Lorenzo's 1st motogp title and Rossi has plenty more. Applying your own logic, if Agostini were to get on a modern GP bike and race Rossi tomorrow he would be the better rider (despite the fact he would lose by miles) on the basis that he has more world titles.

So who was giving altermatums then ? according to your last couple of posts it appears it was Lorenzo !

Well i have seen no statements that suggest Lorenzo threatened to leave or that he was inerested in doing so, especially not over money. In fact the opposite was said in public. But after Ducati's approach last season Yamaha were obviously aware of the fact that Lorenzo was being considerably underpaid and they did run the risk of losing one of their best assets if they failed to acknowledge his value. Rossi knows what Lorenzo is worth, i don't think he objects to Yamaha's perception of his value. The objection is that he doesn't want a rider of that level in 'his' team and Yamaha refused to put all their eggs in his basket.

 

[chopperman]

Well i have seen no statements that suggest Lorenzo threatened to leave or that he was inerested in doing so, especially not over money. In fact the opposite was said in public. But after Ducati's approach last season Yamaha were obviously aware of the fact that Lorenzo was being considerably underpaid and they did run the risk of losing one of their best assets if they failed to acknowledge his value. Rossi knows what Lorenzo is worth, i don't think he objects to Yamaha's perception of his value. The objection is that he doesn't want a rider of that level in 'his' team and Yamaha refused to put all their eggs in his basket.

You implied this in your above posts. By saying "Yamaha actively tried to stop Lorenzo leaving".

 

[Tom]

Rossi is the only guy in the modern era to leave a title winning team (and he has now done this twice) so he has either real big balls to take such a gamble each time or he knows he can move to the new bike and make it work just as well as his last rides. Too bad Lorenzo did not head to Honda or Ducati last year when he had contract talks and briefcases of money thrown his way....if he is so much better than Rossi, then he should have no problem leaving the Yamaha M1 and dominating the field.



I think it is great that Rossi moved to another bike....it changes things up, gets people interested in the sport, it brings in more money to a drying up grid. we usually only see riders move to a different ride when they have a crap year and the team kicks them out or the rider blames the tean looking for a better ride. Rossi leaving a title winning team twice in his career is kinda cool in my opinion.





side note....some people might consider Capirossi leaving Ducati for Suzuki after Marlboro Ducati 2007 title might count as leaving a title winning team/bike.

Lorenzo always said from the start he wanted to stay with Rossi and beat him fair and square. He made that perfectly clear. Rossi leaving Yamaha isn't quite the same as the first team change because he hasn't got the superiority he had then to leave the team as a winner, he is leaving his current team having been beaten by his team mate.

 

[Tom]

You implied this in your above posts. By saying "Yamaha actively tried to stop Lorenzo leaving".

Why else would they pay him more money? It wasn't just to piss Rossi off or to make sure they had less money for the bike.

 

[chopperman]

Why else would they pay him more money? It wasn't just to piss Rossi off or to make sure they had less money for the bike.

So now your saying Lorenzo did give yam ultimatums and threatened to leave? your contradicting yourself tom.

 

[Tom]

So now your saying Lorenzo did give yam ultimatums and threatened to leave? your contradicting yourself tom.

No i'm not. Thats just your default line when you don't understand. Don't panic.



I have seen no evidence of Lorenzo demanding extra money, nor that he was threatening to or interested in leaving. Did you? I saw statements where Lorenzo said he had other options, but that money wasn't an issue either way. We also know that Lorenzo was being paid a lot less than a championship contender normally would, and certainly a lot less than Rossi. Yamaha then agreed to pay Lorenzo a salary more inline with his performance. It is pretty obvious that Yamaha offered that money to Lorenzo to keep him in their team.

 

[dwoodhouse]

So is Lorenzo better than Rossi, or is Forcada better than Burgess.

The answer is that this year Lorenzo/Forcada were better than Rossi/Burgess.

Last year it was the other way around. Next year Lorenzo would probably be favourite to do it again but I say bring it on and we'll see.

 

[dwoodhouse]

Rossi's move, was all about him going to a place where the world would revolve around him once again. He couldn't stand equal treatment, yes, a crime! Why, because it makes him look regular, that is, regularly behind Lorenzo!

(that's for the rostrum comment you gimp)

Go back a few years to the 125s. Rossi has undeniable irregular talent. This was before he received the "special treatment".

Did Rossi get special treatment in 2008? Leading into 08 he fought to get tyres to put him on a par with Stoner, not to get better tyres than Stoner.



There are also other riders who are pretty talented - Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa. They are all unbeatable on their day. I can't say the same about Hayden though. 06 he got hit up the arse with a rainbow. Right place, right time.

 

[rossiofsky]

Great start to the race. It was interesting for the riders to search grip levels in a race (normally something done in practice).



Congrats to Lorenzo, is there any doubt? Good clean pass, good to see he didn't feel the need to repay any favors. What I like is that 'before' the race he set out on his space suit as throwing down the gauntlet (yes, lame by his rival's standards, cute when the other guy does it though, no double standards, eh.) Its like saying to his rival before the race, look, here is my victory celebration, can you do anything about it?

Yes indeed a great and clean pass by Horhay, and Indeed some have double standards here on ps, maybe you know one of them, he was bitching about Rossi's pass on Horhay a few weeks ago and he explained the "Race Etiquette" for everybody, but since then he doesn't have any problems with those moves, as again today he didn't care about Edwards move on or exactly In Simochelli.

 

[BarryMachine]

Rossi knows what Lorenzo is worth, i don't think he objects to Yamaha's perception of his value. The objection is that he doesn't want a rider of that level in 'his' team and Yamaha refused to put all their eggs in his basket.

And by the time Rossi had come to make his decision Lorenzo was already looking like the WC, which devalued Rossi's worth, as did the fact that Rossi was out of the season with injury whilst negotiating a deal. The injury thing pretty much put a stopper to the "its Lorenzo or me" threats though, as they were somewhat "moot" thereafter. EVen the shoulder injury could be played down during negotiations ...... but not the leg

 

[povol]

Id say hayden better be scared of spies the folling season as he only beat a rookie on a sat bike by 1 point

now who's the fanboy with the what if's

(again)!

Hence the, that's for you Rog. Get it now. Plus i rate Spies ahead of Hayden, remember.

 

[rossiofsky]

Ok, ok, enough, why are we pitting these guys against eachother. Can't we get back to the good old days where we all agreed shitting on Pedrosa was the funnest thing to do?

no, you know you can't Mr Garrison. because at this moment Horhay is in a tongue kiss with your dear Casey and therefor you cant hate him like before,

and since he has beaten Rossi to a championship, you Have to support him, after all that's the reason you watch the gp's?!.

now he is a friend of your frined and an enemy of your enemy.



Funny untill a few months ago you didn't like Horhay, but now you need to kiss his ... in every post, and even defend him against the few Rossi fans who enjoyed Horhay's race and racing style from long before you stoped hating him.

 

[chopperman]

Hence the, that's for you Rog. Get it now. Plus i rate Spies ahead of Hayden, remember.

No i don't get it. why don't you just say what your point is ? and as for you now proclaiming to rate spies over hayden just shows you're a bandwagon jumper and hypocrite. You once called rossi fans people who only support a winner. I then pointed out that he had not won the wc for 2 years. Remember??

 

[rossiofsky]

They are compared to the cruising pigfarmer. PI anyone



They, constitutes 2 or more persons or things. How many other Ducati's finished ahead of Hayden at PI

Stoner with some 20 seconds?

 

[povol]

I think a higher classification is worth more than wins. 2006 is the perfect example of that. Or the internal Suzuki battle in 07. CV may have got Suzuki a much needed win, but Hopkins was the better rider over the season in my opinion.







What a load of ......... Rossi and Burgess may have a better career record than anyone on the grid but that doens't mean they are the best until someone has matched their career long numbers. Forcada and Lorenzo are currently better than Burgess and Rossi, surely anyone can understand that

Bingo!