2010 Estorol "RACE" thread

[news1213]

.As for Nicky, I love him, but being a #69 fan grows tiresome. Fifth place, and he looked pretty racy for the first 3 laps...yay.

I hear ya..I'm feeling about the same with the Texas Rangers right now..

 

[povol]

If two riders both had a 7th place championship classification to their name but with a win to one and a slightly higher points tally to the other i would vote the race winner as the more successful rider. Would you disagree?

What if Hayden scores 1 more point than Spies, and ends up 6th instead of 7th



For you Rog

 

[Talpa]

Either he won on a bike Rossi developed, or he didnt. I thought Lorenzo winning on the back of Rossi's hard work was the number one reason Rossi bailed on Yamaha.Its a no win situation for Rossi or his fans. He either got beat on a bike designed for him, OR, If the wall has been up long enough to where the "Lorenzo won on Rossi's bike" theory is bollocks as you say, then Forcada and Lorenzo are better at developing a bike than Rossi and Burgess. Thats the point

Not at all, After Forcada and Lorenzo have won 7 more titles we can say they are better than Rossi and Burgess, and after Forcada has won 11 more titles then you can mention him with Jeremy. At this stage its a one off..............I know its hard as you've already blown in your pants because someone has beaten Rossi. But your point is completely invalid.



The Bike was developed by Rossi and Burgess, to win races. Not just for VR, and the strongest factory and satellite efforts in the field prove this, most riders-bar Toseland have been able to get on the M1 and perform well. This is a testament to how good their development work has been-far from a no win situation







Hate less, you'll be happier

 

[Mr. Shupe]

I hear ya..I'm feeling about the same with the Texas Rangers right now..

I'm a Yankees and Cowboys fan (yes, call me a ....). "Hurry up Cowboys, we have a Rangers game to watch."

 

[Jumkie]

As for Nicky, I love him, but being a #69 fan grows tiresome. Fifth place, and he looked pretty racy for the first 3 laps...yay.

Hang in there Shupe. Its a cruel world.

 

[Tom]

Not to mention 3 more podiums, but didn't you agree that Nicky was the most successful 'other' ducati 800cc rider before I posted the facts?

I think Nicky has been the most impressive/best 'other' Ducati rider. When Loris did what he did the other rider on the bike dominated the championship, Nicky has done pretty much equally well on a bike which has been much less successful in the hands of the other riders.

Go away Tom. Considering two things, one, that bike was designed for Loris, 2nd, that win was in the wet, and you know, even Anthony West lead a race, and would have prob won had it not been for a arbitrary "jump the start" (of the same kind not called at Motegi) then I'd give the edge to Nicky. Why not, if its about splitting hairs on points, then I'll go with that.

Alright don't get mad just because i don't see everything in a pro-nicky light without finding some reasoning to back it up. Thats why i think its worth discussing. Also i'll add that i totally disagree that a win can be considered less valuable for being a wet race. It is just as valid to win in difficult conditions, it is after all competing with all the same riders.

 

[Jumkie]

Not at all, After Forcada and Lorenzo have won 7 more titles we can say they are better than Rossi and Burgess, and after Forcada has won 11 more titles then you can mention him with Jeremy. At this stage its a one off..............I know its hard as you've already blown in your pants because someone has beaten Rossi. But your point is completely invalid.



The Bike was developed by Rossi and Burgess, to win races. Not just for VR, and the strongest factory and satellite efforts in the field prove this, most riders-bar Toseland have been able to get on the M1 and perform well. This is a testament to how good their development work has been-far from a no win situation



Hate less, you'll be happier

Its interesting how you alway spin and change your takes to suit your point when the last thing you said didn't fit the Rossi is God mold. I can't think of any other person that does this more than you, that is to say Rossi's total career outshines anybody and everybody's accomplishments, so present accomplishments are .... compared to Him. I'm surprised you didn't start with "9 time world champ...etc." By your standards then, can we drop the GOAT moniker, because that belongs to Ago, right.



I distinctly remember you guys poo pooing on Lorenzo because he was winning on Rossi's bike. So its no longer Rossi's bike, but community bike?

You just can't stand that your boy got beat on a machine designed around himself. No worries, he can't stand it either, so he moved brands, because he knows they will move heaven and earth around him only. Something that Yamaha was not willing to do.

 

[Tom]

What if Hayden scores 1 more point than Spies, and ends up 6th instead of 7th

I think a higher classification is worth more than wins. 2006 is the perfect example of that. Or the internal Suzuki battle in 07. CV may have got Suzuki a much needed win, but Hopkins was the better rider over the season in my opinion.

Not at all, After Forcada and Lorenzo have won 7 more titles we can say they are better than Rossi and Burgess, and after Forcada has won 11 more titles then you can mention him with Jeremy.

What a load of ......... Rossi and Burgess may have a better career record than anyone on the grid but that doens't mean they are the best until someone has matched their career long numbers. Forcada and Lorenzo are currently better than Burgess and Rossi, surely anyone can understand that

 

[FACTORY]

Pies is beat up but with him and Nicky tied



6 Ben Spies Yamaha US 163

7 Nicky Hayden Ducati US 163



it aint gonna look good on Nicky's CV To be beat by a Rookie or finishing just in front of Ben



Edit

Nicky > Ex World Champ etc time he moved on



btw Spies is on Satellite Kit

Tech ....

this is the same bike Edwards got 5th on last year.....I don't think it is to far off from the fiat squad. I also think Spies is getting a bit more factory support with his bike.



As far as Ex World Champ Hayden moving on going from 13th last year to 6th this year....please tell me you also want Capirossi get out and can't believe he jut got a 2 year deal with Pramac Ducati for 2011/12. I mean he has not done crap in 3 years...

 

[chopperman]

That's odd, because Rossi said his move to Duc: "No, its not about the money." That's a fact jack. So who is lying?

Well sherlock, look who got the raise and look who gave part of there salary back to the team, that should answer your question. I suppose a certain amount of diplomacy was required in what was said to ensure a tolerable working relationship for the remainder of his contract.

 

[Jumkie]

I think Nicky has been the most impressive/best 'other' Ducati rider. When Loris did what he did the other rider on the bike dominated the championship, Nicky has done pretty much equally well on a bike which has been much less successful in the hands of the other riders.



... Thats why i think its worth discussing. Also i'll add that i totally disagree that a win can be considered less valuable for being a wet race.

I'm impressed with your ability to analyze more than the usual superficial here by making the great point of gap magnitude; so I'll ignore what most would consider a wet to dry crap shoot that resulted in the win (I'd be more inclined to agree with you on a full wet race).

 

[chopperman]

'

 

[chopperman]

Either he won on a bike Rossi developed, or he didnt. I thought Lorenzo winning on the back of Rossi's hard work was the number one reason Rossi bailed on Yamaha.Its a no win situation for Rossi or his fans. He either got beat on a bike designed for him, OR, If the wall has been up long enough to where the "Lorenzo won on Rossi's bike" theory is bollocks as you say, then Forcada and Lorenzo are better at developing a bike than Rossi and Burgess. Thats the point

This is the problem with stereotyping. Ive never said lorenzo won on a bike rossi developed ! Imo the wall was up long enough for him and their tream to call his bike their own .

 

[chopperman]

What if Hayden scores 1 more point than Spies, and ends up 6th instead of 7th



For you Rog

Id say hayden better be scared of spies the folling season as he only beat a rookie on a sat bike by 1 point

now who's the fanboy with the what if's

(again)!

 

[Jumkie]

Well sherlock, look who got the raise and look who gave part of there salary back to the team, that should answer your question. I suppose a certain amount of diplomacy was required in what was said to ensure a tolerable working relationship for the remainder of his contract.

Ok, so if it is about the money, then doesn't that say Rossi is a sell out? Geez, you can't have it both ways. I think it was well documented that Rossi repeatedly gave Yamaha multiple ultimatums, him or me. Not just in the rider status, but money, and treatment. Rossi basically did not want to be second fiddle in any regard, and equal was just criminal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rossi was making 14 mil to Lorenzo's 4-8? Duc offerred him 15 I think. We are not even talking personal sponsorship money. Yamaha was not exactly taking food from his mouth dude.

 

[chopperman]

Ok, so if it is about the money, then doesn't that say Rossi is a sell out? Geez, you can't have it both ways. I think it was well documented that Rossi repeatedly gave Yamaha multiple ultimatums, him or me. Not just in the rider status, but money, and treatment. Rossi basically did not want to be second fiddle in any regard, and equal was just criminal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rossi was making 14 mil to Lorenzo's 4-8? Duc offerred him 15 I think. We are not even talking personal sponsorship money. Yamaha was not exactly taking food from his mouth dude.

How would you feel if your employer bleated hard times and you gave part of your salary back to help the firn balance the books only to find out they gave it to another employee? Your boss tells you lies and ..... you over you walk plain and simple. If you don't you end up like Hayden at HRC (A door mat) if you believe that Hayden / puig line.

 

[Pigeon]

this is the same bike Edwards got 5th on last year.....I don't think it is to far off from the fiat squad. I also think Spies is getting a bit more factory support with his bike.



As far as Ex World Champ Hayden moving on going from 13th last year to 6th this year....please tell me you also want Capirossi get out and can't believe he jut got a 2 year deal with Pramac Ducati for 2011/12. I mean he has not done crap in 3 years...

Capi / Colin need to move over but do they bring ££ and experience yes & no in there time

but there comes a time when they need to be moved on

and for a change lets discuss the riders outside of the alienship its been good debate today



furthermore what does motogp have when Colin Capi Marco Interwetten Suzuki Mika etc etc go awol

and as discussed who will be the next aliens or front runners lets hope 2012 can bring some answers

at this time the top 7 motogp placing are split with nearly a 200 point spread

the top 8 is going on for a 250 point spread.i hope the 2011 musical chairs bring the points placings closer



i Cant see the Karel Abrahams type thing doing it any good at all.apart from getting in someones way or causing red flag ....

 

[babelfish]

What is your point? I think something go lost in translation, as I don't speak Stupidish.



Ducati has been a bit of an enigma (I suppose not to you since you can see right though the fairing from your TV) but to the rest of its riders, none have faired too well (fact). That included Hayden last year, but this year much improved (yet still with suspension issues & the other Ducs lagging behind characteristic of every year since the 800s). Rossi will not be riding the nightmare Ducati that only Stoner has made work, he'll be riding the Ducati that has, for a year now or so, being prepared for his arrival.

You sound bitter and sour these days Jumkie.

A bike that has been prepared for a year sounds nice. I'm sure you'll give us all the details on how they've been preparing the bike for Rossi for the last year.

Or is it you glasses playing you game .... again.

 

[Tom]

How would you feel if your employer bleated hard times and you gave part of your salary back to help the firn balance the books only to find out they gave it to another employee? Your boss tells you lies and ..... you over you walk plain and simple.

Rossi wasn't lied to or ...... over, he has no grounds to complain about Lorenzo's wages. Rossi was just bitter because the team took steps to stop Lorenzo leaving after giving them 'him or me' ultimatums

 

[chopperman]

Rossi wasn't lied to or ...... over, he has no grounds to complain about Lorenzo's wages. Rossi was just bitter because the team took steps to stop Lorenzo leaving after giving them 'him or me' ultimatums

Yes, and its these steps that ended up being money out of rossi's pocket and ending up in lorenzo's when the money was supposed to be for other things ! But this point was just a diversion injected by jumkie because we were debating haydens failings.