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December 23rd, 2017, 01:24 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
If I were Suzuki, I'd throw everything I had at Rea to develop the bike.
As far as I'm aware Rea wants a GP bike capable of winning out of the box, time isn't on his side, he's already considered old in GP terms.

He'll never get a factory ride though unfortunately, not only is he the wrong age, he's got the wrong passport.
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December 24th, 2017, 10:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntG View Post
As far as I'm aware Rea wants a GP bike capable of winning out of the box, time isn't on his side, he's already considered old in GP terms.

He'll never get a factory ride though unfortunately, not only is he the wrong age, he's got the wrong passport.
And the wrong attitude. He doesnít deserve a factory Honda, Yamaha, or Ducati. He has dominated a weak field on a dominant bike. Come in and show what you got on a top satellite machine. If you do something like Zarco, then you get a factory ride. Personally I donít think he can carry Spies jockstrap .
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December 25th, 2017, 01:57 AM   #13
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And the wrong attitude. He doesnít deserve a factory Honda, Yamaha, or Ducati. He has dominated a weak field on a dominant bike. Come in and show what you got on a top satellite machine. If you do something like Zarco, then you get a factory ride. Personally I donít think he can carry Spies jockstrap .
You have to look at it from his perspective though WSBK gives him a good life, why sacrifice that for anything other than top machinery(and even that is no guarantee of success), he doesn't have to prove himself to anyone other than the people who really believe that MotoGP is the be all and end all of bike racing, I personally don't.
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December 25th, 2017, 12:41 PM   #14
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You have to look at it from his perspective though WSBK gives him a good life, why sacrifice that for anything other than top machinery(and even that is no guarantee of success), he doesn't have to prove himself to anyone other than the people who really believe that MotoGP is the be all and end all of bike racing, I personally don't.

I look at it from a similar view ........ if he can make a good enough living and achieve goals that he sets himself, then all well and good.

Besides, the old 'I want a competitive factory ride' demand, which he knows he will not get is a convenient excuse to stay where he is, earning well, getting adulation and achieving goals in a less stressed, less demanding series (the less being based on all reports that WSBK is a better environment).

To me, it isn't about hunger but is about comfort so why not stay comfortable?

The sport has no guarantees of success so why risk losing the success you have?
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December 25th, 2017, 01:20 PM   #15
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I look at it from a similar view ........ if he can make a good enough living and achieve goals that he sets himself, then all well and good.

Besides, the old 'I want a competitive factory ride' demand, which he knows he will not get is a convenient excuse to stay where he is, earning well, getting adulation and achieving goals in a less stressed, less demanding series (the less being based on all reports that WSBK is a better environment).

To me, it isn't about hunger but is about comfort so why not stay comfortable?

The sport has no guarantees of success so why risk losing the success you have?
As Michael Dunlop said when asked about giving BSB a go, he said he's got no interest in running around at the back, he'd rather let them come to him and he'll thrash them on his turf.

Ben Spies is actually a great example that the grass isn't always greener and it cost him his career at the age of 29.
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December 25th, 2017, 04:21 PM   #16
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As Michael Dunlop said when asked about giving BSB a go, he said he's got no interest in running around at the back, he'd rather let them come to him and he'll thrash them on his turf.

Ben Spies is actually a great example that the grass isn't always greener and it cost him his career at the age of 29.


From memory (am Sure some of the US guys can jump in), but Spies also had injury that did not help, but in saying that I would have thought that the grass was yellower and not conducive to his remaining on a competitive ride
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December 25th, 2017, 04:32 PM   #17
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Spies career was tempered with by some folk/folks in yamaha to make room for flossi return. That was when he suffered injury that went on to be worsen. Remember when Ben spoke out on the bike failures and other personal issues. Smuck bag jarvis was quick with the pr fire extinguisher.
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December 26th, 2017, 02:23 AM   #18
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From memory (am Sure some of the US guys can jump in), but Spies also had injury that did not help, but in saying that I would have thought that the grass was yellower and not conducive to his remaining on a competitive ride
Yeah but that injury came while riding in MotoGP, that lad went to MotoGP on the crest of a wave, 3 straight AMA championships and a WSBK championship as a rookie, brilliant first season at Tech3 then replaces Rossi, wins a race, gets a few podiums and very nearly won the Valencia race being pipped by Stoner then all of a sudden the bike's got issues, there's friction between him and team members(all while his teammate is battling for the championship), he starts crashing(something Ben was never known for), loses his ride to Rossi, moves to Pramac which I think is where the career ending injury happened and there was more friction between him and team.

I refuse to believe that he just wasn't that good, I think he was an exceptional talent, whatever ones opinions on WSBK what he did was unprecedented, he turned up with no experience of racing outside the USA other than a GP wildcard at Donington in 2008 and not only did he win the title he set records doing it and I'd agree that it was a tougher championship in 2009 than it is today.

But in my opinion it was the move to GP that did him in, same goes for James Toseland and while I don't rank him as high as Spies he was beating some bloody good riders like Bayliss, Biaggi, Haga and Corser, went to MotoGP and came back a shell of a man, again because he was treated like dirt, he got injured not long after and had to retire too but he did end up marrying Katie Melua so maybe he's the big winner after all.

I see the appeal of wanting to race in GP and Formula One because it is deemed the pinnacle of motorcycle and car racing but like I said it isn't the be all and end all, some racers never get to a certain level because of factors outside of their control, Matt Neal is a great touring car racer but at 6'6" tall he was never ever going to be a Formula One driver, just like Dunlop will never be a GP racer because he weighs 14 stone.

These series are deemed the pinnacle but that's just an opinion banded about, guys like Lewis Hamilton and Sebastien Vettel might struggle if they went to NASCAR or WRC just like Marquez or Lorenzo might struggle in BSB or Road Racing, different machines, different tracks, different competitors and different consequences.
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Last edited by AntG; December 26th, 2017 at 02:32 AM.
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December 26th, 2017, 10:38 AM   #19
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Yeah but that injury came while riding in MotoGP, that lad went to MotoGP on the crest of a wave, 3 straight AMA championships and a WSBK championship as a rookie, brilliant first season at Tech3 then replaces Rossi, wins a race, gets a few podiums and very nearly won the Valencia race being pipped by Stoner then all of a sudden the bike's got issues, there's friction between him and team members(all while his teammate is battling for the championship), he starts crashing(something Ben was never known for), loses his ride to Rossi, moves to Pramac which I think is where the career ending injury happened and there was more friction between him and team.
I really rate Ben, just like you, but I think in 2011 and 2012, he simply wasn't fast consistently. I think it would've been difficult joining the team with JL at the peak of his powers, where Ben was still learning and seemed (at least to me) a bit overawed by JL to the point where he publicly stated that he may not ever be as fast as JL.

He had four podiums in 2011 on the factory Yamaha (and was otherwise sitting between fourth and sixth). He had 2 podiums in 2010 on the satellite Yamaha.

The truth is that the Tech 3 bike, like now, was a very good machine, but Ben did not step up as we hoped in 2011 and 2012 on the factory bike.

His team did not perform well in 2012, though. He had a crash in practice at Qatar causing a cracked subframe, which his team (headed by his own guy, Tom H) did not detect. His rubbish HJC helmet was leaking during the French GP.

Yamaha screwed up at Indy (where the bike dropped a valve) and at Laguna (where the shock linkage broke). The clutch seemed to have overheated at the start at Aragon too (we don't know if that was his riding or not, but let's for argument's sake blame Yamaha). That's three races where Yamaha messed up, but the rest of his season was not great...
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December 27th, 2017, 12:51 PM   #20
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Yeah but that injury came while riding in MotoGP, that lad went to MotoGP on the crest of a wave, 3 straight AMA championships and a WSBK championship as a rookie, brilliant first season at Tech3 then replaces Rossi, wins a race, gets a few podiums and very nearly won the Valencia race being pipped by Stoner then all of a sudden the bike's got issues, there's friction between him and team members(all while his teammate is battling for the championship), he starts crashing(something Ben was never known for), loses his ride to Rossi, moves to Pramac which I think is where the career ending injury happened and there was more friction between him and team.

I refuse to believe that he just wasn't that good, I think he was an exceptional talent, whatever ones opinions on WSBK what he did was unprecedented, he turned up with no experience of racing outside the USA other than a GP wildcard at Donington in 2008 and not only did he win the title he set records doing it and I'd agree that it was a tougher championship in 2009 than it is today.

But in my opinion it was the move to GP that did him in, same goes for James Toseland and while I don't rank him as high as Spies he was beating some bloody good riders like Bayliss, Biaggi, Haga and Corser, went to MotoGP and came back a shell of a man, again because he was treated like dirt, he got injured not long after and had to retire too but he did end up marrying Katie Melua so maybe he's the big winner after all.

I see the appeal of wanting to race in GP and Formula One because it is deemed the pinnacle of motorcycle and car racing but like I said it isn't the be all and end all, some racers never get to a certain level because of factors outside of their control, Matt Neal is a great touring car racer but at 6'6" tall he was never ever going to be a Formula One driver, just like Dunlop will never be a GP racer because he weighs 14 stone.

These series are deemed the pinnacle but that's just an opinion banded about, guys like Lewis Hamilton and Sebastien Vettel might struggle if they went to NASCAR or WRC just like Marquez or Lorenzo might struggle in BSB or Road Racing, different machines, different tracks, different competitors and different consequences.
I rated Spies at the time and still do ............. he just got right royally screwed (the injury mention was more along the lines of how much that played on his leaving the sport).

Spies was then, and remains the only rider I have seen come from WSBK to MotoGP and do well to the level of being a podium and race winning challenger (yes, Vermuelen won one race and Bayliss won a race after going back to WSBK and getting a one off ride).

Like you, I understand the 'fan demand' of wanting a rider to race at the top level, and I sure as shit sticks to a blanket understand that riders what to compete at the top level of the sport, but likewise I also understand that many riders may choose to stay away from MotoGP due to the inherent pressures that come with it. Is the reward of having ridden MotoGP worth the risk in terms of dollars and ongoing life pressures?

Does it really open that many doors?

Whilst some will say yes, the doors are only open for the very good or elite of the sport and the money earnt is not sufficient to set=up for an ongoing life so they have to find supplementary income streams etc.

With your final paragraph I could not agree more and have often used a similar descriptive with bike racing. Just because someone dominates one category does not guarantee that they will dominate another and likewise, a rider who may not win a lot or win a title in one category could well be that brilliant rider of another.
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