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August 31st, 2008, 06:53 AM   #1
Tom
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I mentioned him briefly in the 125 and 250cc chat recently, and a few of us agreed that he was too erratic in his riding, despite the fact he is very fast.

I think its worth talking about him and his moves a bit more, as he is the centre of a lot of controversy and is quite unpopular for his antics. Just today we saw 3 noticably questionable moves, and that is what we see at most races. Individually taken i think all his moves this season except for his irresponsible re-entry to the racetrack at Assen were racing incidents, or frustrating but principaly acceptable actions. The trouble is the same rider is continually running people wide and off of the circuit, or being the centre of dangerous incidents.

With such frequency to these incidents i get the feeling it is only a matter of time before there are some significant consequences or someone gets hurt. I wonder if it might be the place of race direction or the riders safetey commision to administer a warning or acknowlegement that Hector should be more mindful of his actions, or adjust his attitude.

Do people think it would be out of place to question Hectors riding if none of his actions have been officially peanalised for whatever reason? Should he be told to step back from his existance on the borderline of what is acceptable, or should action not be taken until the line of acceptablility has been clearly crossed?

Thoughts............
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August 31st, 2008, 07:55 AM   #2
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[<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>quote name='Tom' date='Aug 31 2008, 03:53 PM' post='149203']
I mentioned him briefly in the 125 and 250cc chat recently, and a few of us agreed that he was too erratic in his riding, despite the fact he is very fast.

I think its worth talking about him and his moves a bit more, as he is the centre of a lot of controversy and is quite unpopular for his antics. Just today we saw 3 noticably questionable moves, and that is what we see at most races. Individually taken i think all his moves this season except for his irresponsible re-entry to the racetrack at Assen were racing incidents, or frustrating but principaly acceptable actions. The trouble is the same rider is continually running people wide and off of the circuit, or being the centre of dangerous incidents.

With such frequency to these incidents i get the feeling it is only a matter of time before there are some significant consequences or someone gets hurt. I wonder if it might be the place of race direction or the riders safetey commision to administer a warning or acknowlegement that Hector should be more mindful of his actions, or adjust his attitude.

Do people think it would be out of place to question Hectors riding if none of his actions have been officially peanalised for whatever reason? Should he be told to step back from his existance on the borderline of what is acceptable, or should action not be taken until the line of acceptablility has been clearly crossed?Thoughts............


Jeez Tom, make your mind up. One minute youre not changing favourite riders daily, now mr "racing incident" "no one should ever be penalised for banging into someone else" Tom is calling for tighter control!

Remember how outraged you were that folks doubted Checas riding when he torpedoed Max N, or when Scud was using everyone as brakes. Or indeed when Haslam was crashing into Sykes weekly and costing him races.




Please......


Pete
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August 31st, 2008, 08:11 AM   #3
Tom
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Aug 31 2008, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>[Thoughts............


Jeez Tom, make your mind up. One minute youre not changing favourite riders daily, now mr "racing incident" "no one should ever be penalised for banging into someone else" Tom is calling for tighter control!

Remember how outraged you were that folks doubted Checas riding when he torpedoed Max N, or when Scud was using everyone as brakes. Or indeed when Haslam was crashing into Sykes weekly and costing him races.




Please......


Pete

Good input [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I am very undecided about hector barbera, which is why i started this discussion. As i mentioned originally the situation is tricky because I think only one of Hectors moves have been principly unacceptable.
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August 31st, 2008, 04:42 PM   #4
 
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 31 2008, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good input [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I am very undecided about hector barbera, which is why i started this discussion. As i mentioned originally the situation is tricky because I think only one of Hectors moves have been principly unacceptable.

If I remember correctly he did that move three times in that race.
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September 1st, 2008, 10:12 AM   #5
 
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 31 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good input [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I am very undecided about hector barbera, which is why i started this discussion. As i mentioned originally the situation is tricky because I think only one of Hectors moves have been principly unacceptable.
I'm also surpriced that you opened this tread.

Anyway. I share your worries and undecisivness. As you said, one by one they are only hard passes and acceptable but leaving a track of wrecked bikes or tires full of dirt behind him will end in a disaster sooner or later.
When people operate like this it often take care of it self. Long gone dirty tricks like pulling a front brake lever or a harder than normal brake check and a few well placed words afterwards might have a better effect than a warning, but is also potentially more dangerous.

He must be a very unpopular man in the MotoGP circus by now, and any MotoGP team will think twice to take him on. That might also be a reason to clean up his style.

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September 1st, 2008, 10:56 AM   #6
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 1 2008, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm also surpriced that you opened this tread.

Yea well i just started to wonder if action should be taken before he goes to far or not. Simoncelli got an official talking to about the Mugello incident even though no penalty was actually given, so what about doing that again?
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September 1st, 2008, 10:32 PM   #7
 
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 2 2008, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm also surpriced that you opened this tread.

Anyway. I share your worries and undecisivness. As you said, one by one they are only hard passes and acceptable but leaving a track of wrecked bikes or tires full of dirt behind him will end in a disaster sooner or later.
When people operate like this it often take care of it self. Long gone dirty tricks like pulling a front brake lever or a harder than normal brake check and a few well placed words afterwards might have a better effect than a warning, but is also potentially more dangerous.

He must be a very unpopular man in the MotoGP circus by now, and any MotoGP team will think twice to take him on. That might also be a reason to clean up his style.


He won't be to MotoGp class next year, unless Elias is moving to SBK. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]
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September 2nd, 2008, 08:26 AM   #8
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I was yelling at him during the race when he made those moves. what an idiot. he knocked pasini off his bike, he went WAAAAAAY to far with pulling a trick like that at that specific point of the track. simoncelli got a yellow card a couple of races before, I think a yellow card for barbera is at place now too.
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September 2nd, 2008, 08:32 AM   #9
Tom
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Sep 2 2008, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was yelling at him during the race when he made those moves. what an idiot. he knocked pasini off his bike, he went WAAAAAAY to far with pulling a trick like that at that specific point of the track.

I don't think there was anything wrong with that specific move, it was unfortunate the way the two riders lines came together, but it was a pass made successfully by many riders (including Barbera) and he was definitely alongside when the breif contact happened. I think the second time he ran Simoncelli off the track was his only unacceptable move of the race because he came from way back and was never going to make the turn himself.
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September 2nd, 2008, 12:44 PM   #10
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Sep 1 2008, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yea well i just started to wonder if action should be taken before he goes to far or not. Simoncelli got an official talking to about the Mugello incident even though no penalty was actually given, so what about doing that again?


Tom, are you changing youre mind again? I thought you believed that it was all racing incidents?

You are digging yourself into a hole here Tom, you can't be the guy who wants to see gladitorial combat one week, then be mr "fair play" the next. Youv'e argued this point with me fuck knows how many times, so this just comes over all wrong.

For newer members, I will point out that I'm a great believer that riders who take unessessary chances on the track should be penalised. Tom on the other hand has argued with me, and plenty others, that riders who knock people into next week with "ambitious" manuevers are racers, and that it is ok to put someone into the medical centre so you can beat them on the track.

Pete
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