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-   -   Backing in/Drifting (http://motogpforum.com/motorsports/11507-backing-drifting.html)

DRILL April 3rd, 2010 08:48 AM

Trawling thru Youtube and found a man who can.Search for Bernd Hiemer,he sheds some light on it,weapons at the ready ladies and gentlemen. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

Pigeon April 3rd, 2010 09:30 AM

3 of the Best...no shite flinging. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uxYiWOJ59Vg</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uxYiWOJ59Vg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/alH6MOMCSLw</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/alH6MOMCSLw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>


this one track stuff starts about the 2min mark
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Arrabbiata1 April 3rd, 2010 09:38 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Otis Driftwood @ Apr 3 2010, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Trawling thru Youtube and found a man who can.Search for Bernd Hiemer,he sheds some light on it,weapons at the ready ladies and gentlemen. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]
<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uxYiWOJ59Vg</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uxYiWOJ59Vg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>

Great clip Craig, and I know that you're quite correctly playing devils advocate here. Although interestingly he acknowledges his use of the back brake, I cannot claim a victory. Strictly speaking, and not meaning to reduce this to semantics imo this is drifting and as opposed to backing in - and is more reflective of what BM is referring to. But it's certainly a useful vid, because I see where Barry is coming from - specifically regarding the use of the throttle to keep the tyre spinning. Unfortunately this is where it becomes inconsistent, BM himself claims to shut the throttle which supposedly causes his 749s to slide with ease I might add, purely through engine braking alone [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img] Maintaining spin and a slide around a constant radius throttle is by definition a powerslide which we have seen so entertainingly over the years in GP. I'm trying to get across to BM that 'backing in' is on the approach and entry to a turn, usually a decreasing radius bend or even a hairpin. - Look no further than Toni Elias at Estoril '06. If you have it, watch it again with commentary to illustrate what I mean. Even with the advent of a slipper clutch, the rear end is slung out and slides as a result of the downshift/engine braking - ironically the same mechanism that Barry purports to slide his Ducati - minus of course the downshift which he supposedly doesn't require. In addition to that, watch Elias and it's impossible to come to the conclusion that there is no rear braking involved. He and Simon used to slide a 250 in a similar way, and obviously the engine braking on a 2 stroke is practically non existent.

Couldn't find many good examples of Estoril '06 - but I did find this from the following year. This is what I take to mean by backing it in as opposed to powersliding - although I suppose you could term it a drift. Typical of Toni - he ends up braking too deep
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Barry, I welcome your interpretation/diagnosis



Mick D April 3rd, 2010 11:02 AM

Arrib all ur inviting is more insight into a rare and unknown psyche...

DRILL April 4th, 2010 05:14 AM

Thanks Mark.The clip of Elias is phenomenal. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img]

BarryMachine April 5th, 2010 08:35 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 4 2010, 04:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barry, I welcome your interpretation/diagnosis


Vid. 1 ........ Thank you Sir! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.

Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]


My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide ..... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

chopperman April 6th, 2010 04:09 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 6 2010, 05:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vid. 1 ........ Thank you Sir! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.

Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]


My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide ..... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
But what about the gears then berry ? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Arrabbiata1 April 6th, 2010 11:32 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 6 2010, 05:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vid. 1 ........ Thank you Sir! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.

Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]


My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide ..... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
But I have provided countless links to riders that say do - even in one link that you posted, which I pointed out at the time. As I originally said, the degree to which this is applied really does appear to be down to rider preference.

I notice you've conveniently moved on again from the Hayden rear disc.

Toni runs deep on that video, but doesn't apply the rear brake as a consequence - you can already see him hanging the rear out under braking, and he does this on many corners irrespective of whether he is deep into the turn or not, which is why backing in in GP was far more prevalent in the 990 era. IT IS A TECHNIQUE THAT TONI USES - try to understand that. It is particular to some riders. As I've said, I remember him doing the same on a 250, just a Simon was doing last year in fact. As Rog says, what of the downshift? You have consistently insisted that this is not important in backing a bike in. You have been consistently proved wrong.

Incidently, I have not ridden a 749s, but I did ride a 748, and it was in a word gutless. A buddy of mine has a 1098 and it simply doesn't lock up the rear end when you close the throttle without stomping down the cogs - and even then the slipper clutch is set in such away that it's practically impossible. Like Rog and I said, the Suzuki TL1000 had models recalled following a tragic death and some resultant dubious claims about front end stability, an as a result a steering damper was fitted as standard on subsequent models. According to you Ducati market bikes that lock the rear tyre with ease - forget the downshift, all you have to to do is shut the throttle. I invite anyone on this forum to venture into their nearest Ducati dealer and ask for a road going product that does just that. You made another gargantuan bullshit in that initial post, but refuse to back down. Carry on - you are simply making a complete fool out of yourself as usual.

Just to clarify readers. Barry slides his 749s when slowing for corners, merely by shutting the throttle. You have just said in the above post that they have a propensity to break loose on deceleration, but you originally said that you accomplish this with ease, and whatsmore without using the downshift.

Barry you keep exhorting people to get off the couch and just do it. Saying that you do something over the internet is actually pretty easy. You don't even in fact have to get of the settee be a bullshitter extraordinaire. I'll; give you this BM, when it comes to bullshit you are the fuckin' GOAT.

I am very likely visiting some friends in Brisbane again one day possibly in 2011 or 2012, and I pledge this for all to see on here. Wherever you are, I will personally travel to meet you from there at my extra time and expense and film you on my camcorder sliding your 749s into a turn without any downshift, and purely by closing the throttle. I fully accept that this is such a rare and extraordinary talent that it necessitates an 11,000 mile journey to witness or find in the world - but am prepared to travel to see it. Or maybe you could save me the trouble and post a video of your exploits on here for us all to enjoy.

xx CURVE xx April 6th, 2010 11:55 AM

i just attack the corner full throttle and jam my heal into the rear rim

Arrabbiata1 April 6th, 2010 12:06 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 6 2010, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i just attack the corner full throttle and jam my heal into the rear rim
Barry just talks out of his


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