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May 6th, 2009, 03:07 PM   #41
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ May 6 2009, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What makes Aoyama any more deserving of a MotoGP seat then Takahashi, besides his passport? You talk about the hype surrounding Haslam (after 8 races), what about the hype around Aoyama at the moment (after only 3 races). Look up his record, hardly stellar either.

He's a proven factory rider in a world class championship and has been for years. Haslem however, has never even won his own domestic title despite countless attempts at it on factory machinery. Apart from this season Haslem has been nothing short of poor on the world stage, after being a backmarker in 125cc, a terrible season in 500cc in 2001 (not really his fault, that bike was shit) and a dissapointing season as Haga's teammate in WSBK in 2004.

If he carries on the form that he is currently on for the rest of the season then my opinion of him will change but at the moment he's certainly nothing special.
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May 6th, 2009, 03:21 PM   #42
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I don't think Hayden will hang around the GP paddock much past this season. I've said it for a while, Ducati signed him on for marketing purposes and because he's a demon on a SBK. The 800s contradict his style too much. He's got his title. I think a MotoGP, WSBK and AMA triple crown would be something of more interest than busting his ass for the occasional podium/top five.
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May 6th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #43
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ May 6 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think Hayden will hang around the GP paddock much past this season. I've said it for a while, Ducati signed him on for marketing purposes and because he's a demon on a SBK. The 800s contradict his style too much. He's got his title. I think a MotoGP, WSBK and AMA triple crown would be something of more interest than busting his ass for the occasional podium/top five.

Have you been drinking the Pinky & Aliases juice in which half the forum seems to be drunk on? Ducati signed him because they needed a good rider with the fortitude to give it everything on a machine that has not been mastered by many. Test started to show some promise. During the races, so far its hasn't worked out. Contradict his style? WTF happened to the idea that both Stoner having a dirt track background might have a key to unlocking the Ducati enigma? Hayden, having a similar background was part of the equation in their decision. Marketing? That's it? Are you fucking high? Very stupid statement coming from otherwise a rather smart guy.
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May 6th, 2009, 04:12 PM   #44
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ May 6 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Have you been drinking the Pinky & Aliases juice in which half the forum seems to be drunk on? Ducati signed him because they needed a good rider with the fortitude to give it everything on a machine that has not been mastered by many. Test started to show some promise. During the races, so far its hasn't worked out. Contradict his style? WTF happened to the idea that both Stoner having a dirt track background might have a key to unlocking the Ducati enigma? Hayden, having a similar background was part of the equation in their decision. Marketing? That's it? Are you fucking high? Very stupid statement coming from otherwise a rather smart guy.

Surely, you've seen the ads by now?

If Hayden is riding circles at the back while the general public is inundated with marketing materials, it would be foolish not to toy with the idea that Ducati are mainly interested in him for marketing reasons.

I'm not saying it's true, but you can't ignore what's directly in front of your face b/c it doesn't fit with our preconceived notions as to why Ducati would hire Hayden.

Personally, I don't think they did it for marketing reasons either, but until he gets results, he is window dressing.
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May 6th, 2009, 04:48 PM   #45
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 6 2009, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Personally, I don't think they did it for marketing reasons either, but until he gets results, he is window dressing.

The marketing aspect comes with the territory, but that was not the reason why they would hire the guy (which judging from yours and Austin's post smacks as your brilliant assertion). They are a racing entity and that is first and foremost their goal. Ducati is the two-wheeled equivalent of Ferrari. They are in business to race, as oppose to a business that races.

How is it that a poor result so far is cause to re-write the history why hiring the man made sense and still does? He was stuck in a non-win situation with Honda. Did we forget that once the new engine was developed, he made some gains? This was compared to no end to the power output of the Ducati. Lex, WTF is going on here? Window dressing? Is that Ducati's great marketing model--to get a rider to circulated at the back because this is what will compel the target buyer to get one?
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May 6th, 2009, 05:50 PM   #46
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ May 6 2009, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The marketing aspect comes with the territory, but that was not the reason why they would hire the guy (which judging from yours and Austin's post smacks as your brilliant assertion). They are a racing entity and that is first and foremost their goal. Ducati is the two-wheeled equivalent of Ferrari. They are in business to race, as oppose to a business that races.

How is it that a poor result so far is cause to re-write the history why hiring the man made sense and still does? He was stuck in a non-win situation with Honda. Did we forget that once the new engine was developed, he made some gains? This was compared to no end to the power output of the Ducati. Lex, WTF is going on here? Window dressing? Is that Ducati's great marketing model--to get a rider to circulated at the back because this is what will compel the target buyer to get one?

I'm not saying Ducati's intentions for hiring Hayden have been altered in any way. How could they?

I'm saying until he gets results he is serving Ducati as window dressing only. I don't like to say it, but he's barely within earshot of the podium finishers. This is unlike his trouble at Honda b/c Honda have admitted the piss poor 800cc program is to blame.

I know Nicky can ride the bike, but if it happens later rather than sooner he should consider leaving anyway. He's not developing Honda's wretched attempts at making an 800cc Gran Prix bike, and he shouldn't pour himself into the Ducati endeavor if it doesn't work out. Hayden has developed a chip on his shoulder b/c he's caught a lot of flack for failing to win races. It's affecting his decision-making and his ability to ride. Honda lack leadership/results, and Hayden could return to do great work for them.

After the disaster in 2007 it seemed like Honda started listening to Hayden and they gave him the freedom to develop the pneumatic engine. I was keen to see him leave, but he should benefit from the work he put in at Honda if things don't work out with Ducati. Honda is the next best bike if you forget Yamaha. Maybe Hayden will be even faster on B-stones than he was on Michelins.

If he can get on the box week in and week out, and poach a couple of wins he can take another title. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img]
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May 6th, 2009, 05:52 PM   #47
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ May 6 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Have you been drinking the Pinky & Aliases juice in which half the forum seems to be drunk on? Ducati signed him because they needed a good rider with the fortitude to give it everything on a machine that has not been mastered by many. Test started to show some promise. During the races, so far its hasn't worked out. Contradict his style? WTF happened to the idea that both Stoner having a dirt track background might have a key to unlocking the Ducati enigma? Hayden, having a similar background was part of the equation in their decision. Marketing? That's it? Are you fucking high? Very stupid statement coming from otherwise a rather smart guy.
That came off a bit harsh on my end. Obviously they wouldn't sign the guy if they didn't think he was a capable rider. If you go back to my posts last summer about the possibility of Ducati signing Hayden, I said that Hayden brought with him a world championship and all the talent and experience that comes with that title. That being said, he has struggled to cope with the 800cc machines, there's no hiding that. Yes, he's made strides forward but he hasn't been near the same rider he was on a 990. Now, you take those conditions into account and it's a bit of a risk. However, having Hayden will do Ducati wonders for the US market and should it all go pear-shape, they have their hands on one of the fastest man to ride a Superbike.

The intent of my post was to say that Hayden offered Ducati as much or more than any other rider on the grid but he's been questionable on the 800. To sweeten the pot, Hayden happens to be very, very marketable in Ducati's biggest market and he also knows how to go fast in Ducati's bread and butter class where they happen to be looking for a long term heir to Foggy and Bayliss and I think we can all agree Haga isn't the long term solution. Hayden got the ride on his merits. His marketability and ability to ride a SBK only sealed the deal. Sorry for the confusion.
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May 6th, 2009, 06:40 PM   #48
 
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if there was a rider named Hayden from New Zealand who has had Nickys resullts over the past 5 years, he would be LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG gone
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May 6th, 2009, 06:52 PM   #49
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I have no doubt Ducati signed Hayden because they felt he was the best available rider for their bike.
The top guys in all these teams would know very well the abilities and weaknesses of all the riders in MotoGP. They knew exactly what they were getting in Hayden, and they felt he was capable for the GP9.
In saying that, there is also huge commercial benefit for Ducaiti in having a popular US rider on one of their bikes, but that benefit is lost if the guy is running last. Remeber the US and Aust are the two biggest marhets for Ducati world wide.
Ducati will put huge efforts in trying to get Hayden closer to the front.

I think Hayden will get his confidence back, and will improve on the Ducati and will bank some reasonable results this year (lets say top 5), he might even get on the podium if the top guys DNF, but he is not going to be challenging Stoner / Rossi / Pedro for the title.
I think you will find Hayden will be at Ducati in 2010, unless he gives up, but could swap with Kallio at Pramac
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May 6th, 2009, 08:47 PM   #50
 
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ May 7 2009, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have no doubt Ducati signed Hayden because they felt he was the best available rider for their bike.
The top guys in all these teams would know very well the abilities and weaknesses of all the riders in MotoGP. They knew exactly what they were getting in Hayden, and they felt he was capable for the GP9.
In saying that, there is also huge commercial benefit for Ducaiti in having a popular US rider on one of their bikes, but that benefit is lost if the guy is running last. Remeber the US and Aust are the two biggest marhets for Ducati world wide.
Ducati will put huge efforts in trying to get Hayden closer to the front.

I think Hayden will get his confidence back, and will improve on the Ducati and will bank some reasonable results this year (lets say top 5), he might even get on the podium if the top guys DNF, but he is not going to be challenging Stoner / Rossi / Pedro for the title.
I think you will find Hayden will be at Ducati in 2010, unless he gives up, but could swap with Kallio at Pramac



It's not the problem with the riders, it's the Duke. Maybe if Rossi or Pedrobot can win as many races as possible on that Duke, I stick to my statement. Melandry-coming from 250 class, is much better than Hayden riding that damn Duke. I could be wrong but my presumption is that Hayden will not go anywhere near top 5 this year. Is Ducati willing to give Hayden another chance in 2010? For marketing purpose maybe ? I think Hayden will move to a sattelite team or WSBK.


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