MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

MotoGP MotoGP Forum - MotoGP Class Motorcycle Racing Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
August 19th, 2008, 09:29 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2007
From: Texas

Posts: 6,833
Likes: 76

Suppose Dorna adopt a control tire that uses a substantially harder compound. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] I believe it would solve no fewer than 10 problems in motogp.

They are:
1. Cornering g's
2. Top speeds
3. The request of narrower tires
4. Emaciated midget riders
5. Parity of equipment
6. Fuel restrictions
7. Wheelie and braking electronic controls
8. One line racing/one style riding
9. Low viewership
10. Circuit runoff/rider injuries

Problem 1: Corner speed g's.
Solution: It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how this would be fixed by hard control tire compounds.

Problem 2: Top speed
Solution: Back in the 990 days the manufacturers aimed for 340kph because it was believed that this was the optimal speed. Above 340 was somewhat wasteful because the braking distances were so long it cut into accelerating distance. So if we have a control tire and 990cc do we even need top speed governance. If the compounds are hard enough and corner speeds come down, it seems that it wouldn't be necessary because breaking distance would start eating away at accelerating distance. Furthermore, tracks with long straights are already being cut from the calendar and replaced with shorter straight tracks (no China, new Hungary).

Problem 3: Narrower tires
Solution: you don't need narrower tires if they make the compounds hard enough.

Problem 4: Emaciated, midget riders
Solution: If the compounds are designed to last past race distance riders won't have to be sickly, emaciated midgets.

Problem 5: Parity of equipment
Solution: so much emphasis has been put on the bike manufacturer, but if anything Rossi/Yamaha have proved that parity of tires is more important over the course of a season. Control tires will put everyone on the same rubber

Problem 6: Fuel restrictions
Soluation: Fuel restrictions are killing the sport. They were instituted to reduce power. Dorna needed to reduce power because the tires were capable of unleashing more and more every year. If a control tire controls the amount of power that gets to the ground does it matter how much raw power a bike can produce?

Problem 7: Wheelie control/ braking control
Solution: A lot of riders clamor for less electronics and more safety. If the tires are harder it seems the bikes will be less prone to front flips and less prone to violent wheelies. In theory, this should eliminate the intrusion of electronics. It may end the push for control guards.

Problem 8: One racing line, One riding style
Solution: In theory, if the tires are designed to provide good grip past race distance riders can employ them in many ways. They can ride rear wheel and slide the bike around, or they can ride front wheel and try to nip inside under breaking then carry the speed through the corner. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img] It will be nice to see both styles again.

Problem 9: Low viewership
Solution: Hard compounds means SLIDES [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img] I want to watch the premier class and think to myself, "thank God I chose accounting". [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

Problem 10: Circuit runoff/rider injury
Solution: a control tire should, in theory, slow the increase in speeds in a way that allows track owners and DORNA time to adapt. DORNA can require tracks to increase runoff before the end of the next decade, while issuing contracts for development of new rider safety equipment (personally, I'm intrigued by the airbag leathers).

Obviously, a control tire with 990cc capacity and no throttle by wire would be the holy grail. It seems that the riders and DORNA are becoming anxious to dethrone the manufacturers. It will be interesting to see what happens. Let's hope for the best.
mylexicon is offline  
 
August 19th, 2008, 09:46 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
ROCKGOD01's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
From: America

Posts: 2,228
Likes: 6

China was cut cause like 5 people showed up to watch the races.
ROCKGOD01 is offline  
August 19th, 2008, 09:57 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2007
From: Texas

Posts: 6,833
Likes: 76

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 19 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>China was cut cause like 5 people showed up to watch the races.

I know. I was trying to say that one of the long-straight tracks is gone and has been replaced with a shorter straight track. I wasn't suggesting Dorna canceled it because it was dangerous.
mylexicon is offline  
August 19th, 2008, 10:01 AM   #4
 
Joined: Aug 2007
From: Idaho

Posts: 958

As always Lex a well thought out post. I am for a control tire, as I am tired of seeing a championship between tire manufacturers. Brno was the last straw, it was an embarrassing show for Michelin and for Dorna as it completely exposed a huge problem in the sport.
Bootsakah is offline  
August 19th, 2008, 10:04 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
ROCKGOD01's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
From: America

Posts: 2,228
Likes: 6

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 19 2008, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know. I was trying to say that one of the long-straight tracks is gone and has been replaced with a shorter straight track. I wasn't suggesting Dorna canceled it because it was dangerous.
Oh I thought yer askin. But that track was more of an F1 track anyway. Plus eventhough I sorta liked it in the new GP game coming out for next year I will have a new track to learn.
ROCKGOD01 is offline  
August 19th, 2008, 10:25 AM   #6
Dr. Gonzo
 
Austin's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
From: Woody Creek

Posts: 6,706
Likes: 19

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 19 2008, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Suppose Dorna adopt a control tire that uses a substantially harder compound. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] I believe it would solve no fewer than 10 problems in motogp.

They are:
1. Cornering g's
2. Top speeds
3. The request of narrower tires
4. Emaciated midget riders
5. Parity of equipment
6. Fuel restrictions
7. Wheelie and braking electronic controls
8. One line racing/one style riding
9. Low viewership
10. Circuit runoff/rider injuries

Problem 1: Corner speed g's.
Solution: It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how this would be fixed by hard control tire compounds.

Problem 2: Top speed
Solution: Back in the 990 days the manufacturers aimed for 340kph because it was believed that this was the optimal speed. Above 340 was somewhat wasteful because the braking distances were so long it cut into accelerating distance. So if we have a control tire and 990cc do we even need top speed governance. If the compounds are hard enough and corner speeds come down, it seems that it wouldn't be necessary because breaking distance would start eating away at accelerating distance. Furthermore, tracks with long straights are already being cut from the calendar and replaced with shorter straight tracks (no China, new Hungary).

Problem 3: Narrower tires
Solution: you don't need narrower tires if they make the compounds hard enough.

Problem 4: Emaciated, midget riders
Solution: If the compounds are designed to last past race distance riders won't have to be sickly, emaciated midgets.

Problem 5: Parity of equipment
Solution: so much emphasis has been put on the bike manufacturer, but if anything Rossi/Yamaha have proved that parity of tires is more important over the course of a season. Control tires will put everyone on the same rubber

Problem 6: Fuel restrictions
Soluation: Fuel restrictions are killing the sport. They were instituted to reduce power. Dorna needed to reduce power because the tires were capable of unleashing more and more every year. If a control tire controls the amount of power that gets to the ground does it matter how much raw power a bike can produce?

Problem 7: Wheelie control/ braking control
Solution: A lot of riders clamor for less electronics and more safety. If the tires are harder it seems the bikes will be less prone to front flips and less prone to violent wheelies. In theory, this should eliminate the intrusion of electronics. It may end the push for control guards.


Problem 8: One racing line, One riding style
Solution: In theory, if the tires are designed to provide good grip past race distance riders can employ them in many ways. They can ride rear wheel and slide the bike around, or they can ride front wheel and try to nip inside under breaking then carry the speed through the corner. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img] It will be nice to see both styles again.

Problem 9: Low viewership
Solution: Hard compounds means SLIDES [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img] I want to watch the premier class and think to myself, "thank God I chose accounting". [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

Problem 10: Circuit runoff/rider injury
Solution: a control tire should, in theory, slow the increase in speeds in a way that allows track owners and DORNA time to adapt. DORNA can require tracks to increase runoff before the end of the next decade, while issuing contracts for development of new rider safety equipment (personally, I'm intrigued by the airbag leathers).

Obviously, a control tire with 990cc capacity and no throttle by wire would be the holy grail. It seems that the riders and DORNA are becoming anxious to dethrone the manufacturers. It will be interesting to see what happens. Let's hope for the best.
Pretty good points there Lex, although I can't quite follow your logic on these two points. Are you saying that if the control tire is of a harder compound, there will no longer be a need for fuel restrictions as the tires will not be able to handle the excessive power anyways?

And with the electronics portion, I guess I just don't follow how a control tire could lead to abolishing rider aids. If anything, I would feel that it will push the manufacturers to become more dependent on those aids as there will be less grip available.
Austin is offline  
August 19th, 2008, 10:30 AM   #7
 
Joined: Mar 2007
From: USA

Posts: 398

More regulations result in more boring races. I say take of ALL regulations -- any tire, any displacement, as much fuel as needed, now that's racing..
crvlvr is offline  
August 19th, 2008, 10:51 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2007
From: Paso Robles, CA USA

Posts: 2,859
Likes: 1

Well if we control things in the name of safety again, this time with a harder compound and say everything works as Lex planned do we then throw qualifying out the door? That would totally contradict what you were trying to accomplish in the name of safety.

SackWack is offline  
August 19th, 2008, 11:04 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,726
Likes: 3982

A control tire is not a solution for everything, but its a start in the right direction. It would solve many of the points you make Lex (not all). But this way the brands could concentrate on other aspects they lack behind the front runners. Just this alone would be huge.
Jumkie is offline  
August 19th, 2008, 11:27 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
povol's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
From: Tennessee

Posts: 10,515
Likes: 1678

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 19 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Suppose Dorna adopt a control tire that uses a substantially harder compound. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] I believe it would solve no fewer than 10 problems in motogp.

They are:
1. Cornering g's
2. Top speeds
3. The request of narrower tires
4. Emaciated midget riders
5. Parity of equipment
6. Fuel restrictions
7. Wheelie and braking electronic controls
8. One line racing/one style riding
9. Low viewership
10. Circuit runoff/rider injuries

Problem 1: Corner speed g's.
Solution: It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how this would be fixed by hard control tire compounds.

Problem 2: Top speed
Solution: Back in the 990 days the manufacturers aimed for 340kph because it was believed that this was the optimal speed. Above 340 was somewhat wasteful because the braking distances were so long it cut into accelerating distance. So if we have a control tire and 990cc do we even need top speed governance. If the compounds are hard enough and corner speeds come down, it seems that it wouldn't be necessary because breaking distance would start eating away at accelerating distance. Furthermore, tracks with long straights are already being cut from the calendar and replaced with shorter straight tracks (no China, new Hungary).

Problem 3: Narrower tires
Solution: you don't need narrower tires if they make the compounds hard enough.

Problem 4: Emaciated, midget riders
Solution: If the compounds are designed to last past race distance riders won't have to be sickly, emaciated midgets.

Problem 5: Parity of equipment
Solution: so much emphasis has been put on the bike manufacturer, but if anything Rossi/Yamaha have proved that parity of tires is more important over the course of a season. Control tires will put everyone on the same rubber

Problem 6: Fuel restrictions
Soluation: Fuel restrictions are killing the sport. They were instituted to reduce power. Dorna needed to reduce power because the tires were capable of unleashing more and more every year. If a control tire controls the amount of power that gets to the ground does it matter how much raw power a bike can produce?

Problem 7: Wheelie control/ braking control
Solution: A lot of riders clamor for less electronics and more safety. If the tires are harder it seems the bikes will be less prone to front flips and less prone to violent wheelies. In theory, this should eliminate the intrusion of electronics. It may end the push for control guards.

Problem 8: One racing line, One riding style
Solution: In theory, if the tires are designed to provide good grip past race distance riders can employ them in many ways. They can ride rear wheel and slide the bike around, or they can ride front wheel and try to nip inside under breaking then carry the speed through the corner. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img] It will be nice to see both styles again.

Problem 9: Low viewership
Solution: Hard compounds means SLIDES [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img] I want to watch the premier class and think to myself, "thank God I chose accounting". [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

Problem 10: Circuit runoff/rider injury
Solution: a control tire should, in theory, slow the increase in speeds in a way that allows track owners and DORNA time to adapt. DORNA can require tracks to increase runoff before the end of the next decade, while issuing contracts for development of new rider safety equipment (personally, I'm intrigued by the airbag leathers).

Obviously, a control tire with 990cc capacity and no throttle by wire would be the holy grail. It seems that the riders and DORNA are becoming anxious to dethrone the manufacturers. It will be interesting to see what happens. Let's hope for the best.


Im assuming #4 was aimed at Asimo since he is the one that is so much smaller than the rest.

Even though less weight obviously is a + when it comes to tire wear,I would think acceleration and braking would be bigger factors than tire wear.My point being,If #4 was aimed at Asimo,when was the last time you saw him make a late race surge because his tires lasted longer.
povol is offline  
Reply

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

Tags
control, fix, tire



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BSB to get control ECU? mylexicon World Superbike 22 August 22nd, 2010 12:41 PM
Control Tire developed for who? Jumkie MotoGP 58 November 6th, 2008 01:57 AM
Control tire and max speed limit mylexicon MotoGP 7 August 26th, 2008 11:50 AM
Who can tell me about this tire? GeNeRaL MotoGP 8 October 20th, 2005 12:41 PM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2021 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.