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August 26th, 2008, 08:21 AM   #51
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 26 2008, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dorna suggest rules, they don't make them.
Exactly what rule canges were you refering to that was made for Rossi to stay in MotoGP.

Not in regards to tires. Ezy already told us that their is no operating agreement with the tire manufacturers and Ezy has a free hand to do what he pleases.

That's the report I was waiting on to lend credence to my early season observations that their were fishy things going on with the tires. Who knows, maybe Vale and Stoner were testing the control tire for this year. Maybe that why Bstone took him on. That's why Stoner was amazed at the high performance of his regular tires when he got them back after LeMans

In any event it wasn't legit.

The rule I'm referring to is the one they hammered out in the technical tire meetings of 2007. Bridgestone publicly refused Yamaha, then months of heating debate, they accept ONE RIDER--Vale.

That is the rule, agreement, biased-manipulation-of-an-otherwise-unbiased-set-of-rules that I'm referring to.
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August 26th, 2008, 09:48 AM   #52
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 25 2008, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>RockGOD, generally I'm with you but let me explain to you how this game works.

First companies start building motorcycles. In the beginning the compete with one another to see who can build the best products. At some point the competition causes development to greatly surpass the consumer market. In general the over development of racing products leads to excessive consumer cost.

At this point there is an enormous opportunity for new upstart companies to enter the market and make good consumer products at significantly reduced cost. In order to protect their profit margins, entrenched companies have to move upmarket. They continue adding superfluous technologies to their products while using marketing to convince consumers that their upgrades are not only superior but 100% necessary. If you want an example think about horsepower. What is the marginal cost of horsepower when related to displacement? Practically nil, but we pay out our asses for it.

That's how the game works. It has nothing to do with the progress of human kind, it has to do with the evolution of marketing and consumer purchasing habits. For the most part, Western consumers buy enormous amounts of unnecessary technology from a quantity and a quality standpoint.

A control tire will not significantly hurt the consumer experience, though, it may wound our vanity.
No need to explain this to a former VP of sales. I understand completely how these things shake out. The problem is that in direct relation to the consumer market, racing these TIRES gets us to the next evolutionary step. Now with the sbks we can purchase making upwards of 160 hp without modifications the development of safer stronger gripier tires are very important. This is all I am saying as simple as I can make it.
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August 26th, 2008, 12:12 PM   #53
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 26 2008, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No need to explain this to a former VP of sales. I understand completely how these things shake out. The problem is that in direct relation to the consumer market, racing these TIRES gets us to the next evolutionary step. Now with the sbks we can purchase making upwards of 160 hp without modifications the development of safer stronger gripier tires are very important. This is all I am saying as simple as I can make it.

What next step? Last time I checked Qualifiers aren't the highest selling tires in the United States.

Without a rhetorical dedication to "better" how are you going to convince people to buy more unnecessary grip? Marketing, that's how. The evil economic engine that forestalls the recession associated with contentment.

Now I suppose it is possible that racing could lead to the development of a Qualifer that lasts 10,000 miles, but I'd hate to be the executive who adds that to the tire lineup. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

Of course you're in sales. Obviously you know how the game works and obviously it's bad for the sales of entrenched companies. I hope you're not using your own product. You know what they say about dealers who use. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]
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August 26th, 2008, 12:28 PM   #54
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 26 2008, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What next step? Last time I checked Qualifiers aren't the highest selling tires in the United States.

Without a rhetorical dedication to "better" how are you going to convince people to buy more unnecessary grip? Marketing, that's how. The evil economic engine that forestalls the recession associated with contentment.

Now I suppose it is possible that racing could lead to the development of a Qualifer that lasts 10,000 miles, but I'd hate to be the executive who adds that to the tire lineup. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

Of course you're in sales. Obviously you know how the game works and obviously it's bad for the sales of entrenched companies. I hope you're not using your own product. You know what they say about dealers who use. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]
LOL yeah. It isn't the qualifier I was really even referring to so. Well we all knows what happens when you don't do much t develop better products.
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August 26th, 2008, 12:37 PM   #55
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Aug 26 2008, 06:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But Rossi and Stoner would get the new stuff to try first.. this always seems the way.
I'm hoping a One Tyre rule will slow down tyre development.

Why slow down tyre development??
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August 26th, 2008, 03:16 PM   #56
 
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>(an4rew @ Aug 26 2008, 06:20 AM)
But Rossi and Stoner would get the new stuff to try first.. this always seems the way.
I'm hoping a One Tyre rule will slow down tyre development.

im interesting in knowing your reasoning behind this too. with statements like this you are inviting the irish jokes.
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August 26th, 2008, 04:32 PM   #57
 
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 26 2008, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not in regards to tires. Ezy already told us that their is no operating agreement with the tire manufacturers and Ezy has a free hand to do what he pleases.

That's the report I was waiting on to lend credence to my early season observations that their were fishy things going on with the tires. Who knows, maybe Vale and Stoner were testing the control tire for this year. Maybe that why Bstone took him on. That's why Stoner was amazed at the high performance of his regular tires when he got them back after LeMans

In any event it wasn't legit.

The rule I'm referring to is the one they hammered out in the technical tire meetings of 2007. Bridgestone publicly refused Yamaha, then months of heating debate, they accept ONE RIDER--Vale.

That is the rule, agreement, biased-manipulation-of-an-otherwise-unbiased-set-of-rules that I'm referring to.

Eh, the deal where Rossi got bridgestone tires are not a rule but a deal. Dirty or not it's got nothing to do with rules. And the face saving step were exactly that -ONE RIDER, not a team as Bridgestone were refering to when refusing Yamaha. If the deal took some pushing from other parties are still unkonwn and for you to speculate wildly in.
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August 26th, 2008, 05:55 PM   #58
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alex29 @ Aug 26 2008, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why slow down tyre development??
That is what don't get. They are not going to stop developing the bikes. Tires are such a major thing to slow down in this regard.
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August 27th, 2008, 02:13 AM   #59
 
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well come on andrew, were all interested in why you want tyre development to slow or stop. you cant say something like that then not come back to follow it up !
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August 27th, 2008, 02:49 AM   #60
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I thought the whole idea of a control tyre was to reduce tyre development costs, keep corner speeds within safe limits and level the playing field. If a control tyre was developed as the current tyres are then the first two points woulnn't be achieved at all.
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