MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

MotoGP MotoGP Forum - MotoGP Class Motorcycle Racing Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
August 25th, 2008, 10:20 AM   #41
Senior Member
 
ROCKGOD01's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
From: America

Posts: 2,228
Likes: 6

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 25 2008, 02:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting post lex. What I miss in this Rossi -> Bridgestone thing is what kind of leverage does he have? Not the weight or length of his leverage but the type. Because if we look at it he has the same type of leverage as all the other riders; his reputation and results as a rider. Nothing else. Sure, there are sponsors following riders but that's really just a part of that reputation and will depend on sitizenship and contacts. But any way we turn it the riders have only that single asset to go into a negotiation, nothing more nothing less. And that's what they try to use to the fullest to achive their goals and ambitions every one of them.
I agree that Rossi might have a very long and heavy leverage but it's buildt only on his reputation. He doesn't own any substantial interests in Dorna or have some dirty secrets on Ezy (that we know of) so all he have is his reputation. So he does what all the other riders are doing, he negotiate with his reputation as leverage. I can agree that Rossi might have become too big and to powerful but you can hardly blame him for it. First of all beacuse Dorna, FIM and the media has done their best to help him build that reputation, secondly because in the end it's buildt on his own merits.
Is it political, sure, everything is politics, didn't you know? Is it dirty, no way, if he sat on both sides, or paid off those on the other side it would, but him using the leverage he got is to do exactly what everyone else does.
Well now that is not exactly accurate. Rossi if you guys read anything other than this site was thinking about leaving the sport. He didn't want to really as it read but he said that he couldn't continue with a BIKE that wasn't competative and a tire of the same. IF you remember that at the end of last year his yamaha contract was up and threatend to leave and go to DUCATI and was also bitching about Michelins. HE surely has pull with dorna since he is the MOTOGP posterboy and with the lack of strength in the paddock and popularity of the sport EZY didn't want the greatest of the sport to leave and do something else that would bring less attention to GP. So really what Rossi wants he gets. People all around the sport especially if you know a professional rider in GP's or even SBK world or AMA will tell you this. You can find this information for yourselves by reading crash.net, MCN, Superbikeplanet, etc. There is no queston that Rossi has earned his place but is it fair? Who knows if the sport is elevated year to year. Look at Indy. The U.S. has two events and it hasn't even been but a few years since we got Laguna. Don't want to derail the gravy train and Rossi really is the Engine. For now.
ROCKGOD01 is offline  
 
August 25th, 2008, 12:23 PM   #42
 
Joined: May 2006

Posts: 3,031

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 25 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well now that is not exactly accurate. Rossi if you guys read anything other than this site was thinking about leaving the sport. He didn't want to really as it read but he said that he couldn't continue with a BIKE that wasn't competative and a tire of the same. IF you remember that at the end of last year his yamaha contract was up and threatend to leave and go to DUCATI and was also bitching about Michelins. HE surely has pull with dorna since he is the MOTOGP posterboy and with the lack of strength in the paddock and popularity of the sport EZY didn't want the greatest of the sport to leave and do something else that would bring less attention to GP. So really what Rossi wants he gets. People all around the sport especially if you know a professional rider in GP's or even SBK world or AMA will tell you this. You can find this information for yourselves by reading crash.net, MCN, Superbikeplanet, etc. There is no queston that Rossi has earned his place but is it fair? Who knows if the sport is elevated year to year. Look at Indy. The U.S. has two events and it hasn't even been but a few years since we got Laguna. Don't want to derail the gravy train and Rossi really is the Engine. For now.

I'm not arguing agaist that he said he didn't want to compete with uncompetetive material, it's not at all surpriceing either. Seen in the lights of this years events that more or less confirm Rossi's suggestion that both the engine and the tires were uncompetetive wouldn't you say the same if in his shoes?
But in the end what leverage was he using? That statment were nothing but using his reputation for all it was worth. To say he would consider to quit must be close to as far as it is possible to push his leverage and if he failed this year it would be more than a huge dent in his reputation.

babelfish is offline  
August 25th, 2008, 12:53 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2007
From: Texas

Posts: 6,833
Likes: 76

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 25 2008, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But in the end what leverage was he using? That statment were nothing but using his reputation for all it was worth. To say he would consider to quit must be close to as far as it is possible to push his leverage and if he failed this year it would be more than a huge dent in his reputation.

Of course he used his reputation for all it was worth and he used it for deviant purposes.

Using his reputation to breach/renegotiate with Yamaha and depart for another team with an opening would have been the proper use of his reputation. If Yamaha refused using his reputation to vilify Yamaha would have been good use of his reputation.

Lobbying the head marketing company and the governing body to rewrite the rules so you can have the equipment you want was NOT a good use of his reputation.

Using his reputation to illicitly obtain equipment for himself while using rhetoric to pretend he wanted to improve the sport all along. Complete and total garbage.

If you are his fan and his supporter, you should demand he stops.
mylexicon is offline  
August 25th, 2008, 01:20 PM   #44
World Champ
 
Joined: May 2007
From: N. Ireland

Posts: 1,836

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 24 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The strange thing is that so many think there are some very special, secret, super tires the manufacturers are handing out to a slected few riders. I got news for you: as long as it is a real tire competition out there Michelin and Breidgestone can't afford to keep the best tires from most of the riders. They need to supply the best they've got to win the tire war.

But Rossi and Stoner would get the new stuff to try first.. this always seems the way.
I'm hoping a One Tyre rule will slow down tyre development.
an4rew is offline  
August 25th, 2008, 01:37 PM   #45
 
Joined: May 2006

Posts: 3,031

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 25 2008, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Of course he used his reputation for all it was worth and he used it for deviant purposes.

Using his reputation to breach/renegotiate with Yamaha and depart for another team with an opening would have been the proper use of his reputation. If Yamaha refused using his reputation to vilify Yamaha would have been good use of his reputation.

Lobbying the head marketing company and the governing body to rewrite the rules so you can have the equipment you want was NOT a good use of his reputation.

Using his reputation to illicitly obtain equipment for himself while using rhetoric to pretend he wanted to improve the sport all along. Complete and total garbage.

If you are his fan and his supporter, you should demand he stops.

What rewriting? Control tire? Can't be as it is still on the agenda. If that was for Rossi's sake why didn't it disapear when he got what he wanted?

What do you mean by illicitly obtained equipment? Last time I checked he is running on legal Bridgestone tires just like the majority of the MotoGP riders, and they were obtained by a contract for him only in a team of two. Also a fact that has been overlooked by the conspiracy theorists is that Bridgestone hardly expected a one man deal. They expected a team of two.
He negotiated an new contract with a new suplier when the old contract ran out. Obviously illegal, NOT.

I hope he continue to demand what equipment that works best for him under the regulations present and that he continue to cut through the bullshit of politics soley on his reputation if it's regarding equipment of safety issues. That's actually very cool.
babelfish is offline  
August 25th, 2008, 01:57 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
ROCKGOD01's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
From: America

Posts: 2,228
Likes: 6

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Aug 25 2008, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But Rossi and Stoner would get the new stuff to try first.. this always seems the way.
I'm hoping a One Tyre rule will slow down tyre development.
They would get the stuff first. And slow dev? Are you nuts. We have in the consumer market benefited from the dev and cause it is so fast it trickles down to us so we have safer products. Guess you don't like having the latest and greatest.
ROCKGOD01 is offline  
August 25th, 2008, 02:04 PM   #47
World Champ
 
Joined: May 2007
From: N. Ireland

Posts: 1,836

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 25 2008, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They would get the stuff first. And slow dev? Are you nuts. We have in the consumer market benefited from the dev and cause it is so fast it trickles down to us so we have safer products. Guess you don't like having the latest and greatest.

I think it would slow dev but not stop it completely... Bridgestone are not gonna waste any more money than they have to be the best if they got the deal.
Bridgestone would be finishing in every position anyway.
an4rew is offline  
August 25th, 2008, 02:11 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2007
From: Texas

Posts: 6,833
Likes: 76

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 25 2008, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What rewriting?

Are you suggesting DORNA don't write down all of the rules changes they make behind closed doors.


SCANDALOUS!!!!
mylexicon is offline  
August 25th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2007
From: Texas

Posts: 6,833
Likes: 76

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 25 2008, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They would get the stuff first. And slow dev? Are you nuts. We have in the consumer market benefited from the dev and cause it is so fast it trickles down to us so we have safer products. Guess you don't like having the latest and greatest.

RockGOD, generally I'm with you but let me explain to you how this game works.

First companies start building motorcycles. In the beginning the compete with one another to see who can build the best products. At some point the competition causes development to greatly surpass the consumer market. In general the over development of racing products leads to excessive consumer cost.

At this point there is an enormous opportunity for new upstart companies to enter the market and make good consumer products at significantly reduced cost. In order to protect their profit margins, entrenched companies have to move upmarket. They continue adding superfluous technologies to their products while using marketing to convince consumers that their upgrades are not only superior but 100% necessary. If you want an example think about horsepower. What is the marginal cost of horsepower when related to displacement? Practically nil, but we pay out our asses for it.

That's how the game works. It has nothing to do with the progress of human kind, it has to do with the evolution of marketing and consumer purchasing habits. For the most part, Western consumers buy enormous amounts of unnecessary technology from a quantity and a quality standpoint.

A control tire will not significantly hurt the consumer experience, though, it may wound our vanity.
mylexicon is offline  
August 26th, 2008, 02:31 AM   #50
 
Joined: May 2006

Posts: 3,031

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 25 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you suggesting DORNA don't write down all of the rules changes they make behind closed doors.


SCANDALOUS!!!!
Dorna suggest rules, they don't make them.
Exactly what rule canges were you refering to that was made for Rossi to stay in MotoGP.
babelfish is offline  
Reply

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

Tags
control, fix, tire



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BSB to get control ECU? mylexicon World Superbike 22 August 22nd, 2010 12:41 PM
Control Tire developed for who? Jumkie MotoGP 58 November 6th, 2008 01:57 AM
Control tire and max speed limit mylexicon MotoGP 7 August 26th, 2008 11:50 AM
Who can tell me about this tire? GeNeRaL MotoGP 8 October 20th, 2005 12:41 PM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2021 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.