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February 4th, 2007, 09:06 PM   #71
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 4 2007, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The trouble with Bayliss was that he refused to adapt his style to riding gp bikes. He is too agressive and doesn't have the precision that makes the best gp riders so good. Not to mention the skills to setting up a bike with so many parameters and the ability to not make mistakes.
Tom, I'm not sure I agree, but I figure your guess is as good as mine. It is a real mystery to me why some guys can do well at certain times in their lives and suck at other times. I have much love for Bayliss because I use to be more into WSBK than MotoGP. After-all, they were coming regularly to the States (unlike GP). I grew to admire Bayliss' racing and figured it wasn't lack of adapting or willingness to learn, and certainly, it wasn't a lack of experience on the tracks, that I could figure on explaining his sub performance in GP. I feel like the guy was fast and consistent and I don't see why he would suddenly become grid filler in GP. Seeing him race and following him in WSBK (as I did Colin also) leads me to one conclusion, its not that they suddenly became mediocre riders, but my conclusion is that they were on a sub par package. I'm not ready to say the tires were the only thing to point to, nor do I think the level of competition is vastly different in GP. But I do think that when it comes to prototypes as GPs are, the critical variances are such that an inferior set up or machine can have a greater deal of effect on the race outcome then the homologated (production) bikes that are WSBK. The Ducati had Loris on it, a great and fast, and proven champ in his own right, but he wasnít setting the world on fire on his bike. I wouldnít say Loris is a mediocre rider just as much as Iím not ready to say (or suggest) Bayliss (and Colin for that matter) is a mediocre. But like I said, itís an enigma to me, and my guess is just as good as anybodies I guess.
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February 4th, 2007, 09:26 PM   #72
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 5 2007, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.... but my conclusion is that they were on a sub par package.

Spot on, the package has EVERYTHING to do with it.. You think Edwards gets the exact same parts as Rossi? Pfft, your dreaming.. Just like Bayliss would have been second fiddle to Capirossi, on a developing bike. (when he was on Honda, he was sooo far down the parts chain that he never got a chance to get comfortable) Ultimately, in WSBK, he has everything built around him and gets number one rider priority, hence his dominance.

The race at Valencia Troy had in GP last year was a one off, he had the best of equipment and tyres and dominated the race from lap one until the chequerd flag (could have snared pole aswell). Also, no rider, WSBK or MotoGP is mediocre, they are all great in their own right, some greater than others of course..
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February 5th, 2007, 02:39 AM   #73
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I really don't feel like the package is a major issue. I mean as much of a beast as it was, itss till a factory bike on Michelins! And the results were not too bad. I think one of the reasons he lost his job at ducati was not that he wasn't fast enough, it was that after the first year, he showed very little if any improvement. He failed to actually adapt and get better. Then of course Bayliss gets a customer Honda, and there is obviously nothing wrong with that. If you compare him to Edwards for example, he took a year on a customer honda with relatively mediocre results, and since then has managed to improve (although not by enough in my opinion). The thing that sets these guys appart is that even though i feel colins bike could be put to better use, and he is not the future that yamaha needs, is that he adapted to gp's. Colin changed his riding style, and he comunicated well with the engineers for development purposes, and he stayed on his bike and in the points. These are all things that troy didn't manage so well.

So maybe his package wasn't fit for race wins and title challanges, but its how he dealt with the situation that cost him his ride. I am not trying to say that he is anything other than a great rider. Like antfan said, wsbk guys are all excellent. But i consider him a great superbiker who doesn't have what it takes for gp's.
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February 5th, 2007, 06:21 AM   #74
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 3 2007, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the world superbike scene leaves Europe very few times (not sure how much), but that will be much less taxing.
twice... qatar & philip island.
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February 5th, 2007, 02:34 PM   #75
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Hey sb248, I just got back from the Supercross at Anaheim. Great race, Bubba ran away with the win after a few bumps with Reed. Bubba is fast man, but he does have a tenedency of making mistakes. Anyway, I think he will win the SX title this year, what do you think?
hey jumkie
cool, with out a dought he is the fastest rider around at the min, just a tad unstable at times, but then so was ricky when he first moved to 250.

i have to say i never seen anybody whip like him. what about brownie i always liked him, hard as nails. seen him race here in ireland even, when he raced in the british and world champ. in my opinion one of the best riders never to get the world title, although that year he was on the honda which was a complete bundle. you going to make the trip to the des nations this year, i think its on your side of the pond this time.
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February 5th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #76
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sb248 @ Feb 5 2007, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hey jumkie
cool, with out a dought he is the fastest rider

i have to say i never seen anybody whip like him. what about brownie i always liked him, hard as nails. seen him race here in ireland

you going to make the trip to the des nations this year, i think its on your side of the pond this time.
Yeah, Bubba can whip it all right. I agree with you about Brownie, he just could string enough points along to win the big prize. I got to see him in Vegas once, the guy was lighting.

If the Des Nations actuallymake it here, you know I'll be close enough to get some roost in my face.

I moved over to the Other Race Chat area.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 5 2007, 06:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>twice... qatar & philip island.

"World" superbike AKA the "European" championship.
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February 6th, 2007, 02:06 AM   #77
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 6 2007, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"World" superbike AKA the "European" championship.
bit like CART world series. some years it will go to another country sometimes ot wont.
as ive said before ,if its a world series /championship it should be played out around the world. 1 race 1 country
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February 6th, 2007, 06:17 PM   #78
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the SBK series and MGP series are for two very different style of riders.. as once expressed by a GP/SBK racer.. GP requires setup that can blow your mind... with this in mind, the GP rider needs to see the bigger picture.. SBK rider have relatively limited stuff to mess with when compared to GP.. so SBK riders are precision riders, consistency and concentration will win races..

There are basically two style of riders I can see in GP.. most ppl fall into the setup king style like Biaggi or Barros who needs the perfect setup to win races.. Others like Capirossi and Rossi seem to ride through the machinery's imperfections... BUT note that Rossi is also a setup king of kings.. he can make the bike to his liking but also ride the ass off his imperfect bike like no one can.. that is why if M1 has a pefect setup day, you see Rossi win and Edwards in top 10 but if M1 is not perfect, the Rossi podiums while Edwards is in 15th place..

The problems some SBK riders faced when they come to GP is that the crew chief is not good enough to tell the riders that messing up with the setup can make the rider/mechanics lose focus of the problem they were solving (eg chatter). But they seem to do well in SBK.. Some GP riders that depend on their perfect setup and other imperfect setup can go to SBK and find themselves struggling.

Therefore, each of this series is like the king of their racing.. MGP king of GP motorcycle racing while WSBK is king of SBK/SST racing.. it is just what you prefer.. don't mixed those two up!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 2 2007, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ogunski i think this applies to any series. not just motogp. the point is would u rather have a competitive package in gp's? or a competitive package in wsbk? which series would u, as a top rider, want to show off your abilities? the best or 1 of the rest?

it is true setup is vital for any series.. but there is a difference b/t gp setup and sbk setup
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