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October 29th, 2021, 03:42 PM   #71
Gaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
The inner fire or unflinching self belief may not be there.
Unfortunately neither is the outworldly level of skill, someone like Marquez or Doohan has.
Strong at every track and able to ride around bike problems and force it to do want it doesn't want to consistently and better than others can
.
Which is not an issue and is rare to have in a rider, so even when looked at in that way, it shows that Jack is actually in amongst a bundle of riders, many who are extremely well respected and regarded, just not at the supreme upper echelon and in that I see no harm, still a good spot.

Jack has won 3 races in his career and has around 13 podiums so far in a career that is not over. He has more race wins than many riders including some world champions and more podiums than many other riders. His career race to podium percentage is better than 10% which a factory would want to be higher but it is a better ratio than that of a number of riders of today and past that people in some areas treat differently.

Jack is simply Jack and very very few riders are a Mick Doohan (an avowed MD tragic here) or a Marquez but even those guys have struggled from time to time riding around problems.

As for skill, I feel that he is not that lacking on riders of his era, and may well be right there with them but the difference is not about a riding skill but a mental skill and for some people, that final component may not be possible. I mean, many people cannot be the take no prisoners rider of a Marquez or Doohan, guys who will happily ride you to the edge of the track and make you choose to fall or fail (all legal mind).

All up, for me Jack is the next tier down the rung but still way up from the bottom - you do not achieve that which he has without talent and sure race wins aren't there but skills I do see.

Plus for me, he is relatable and the sport needs relatable characters rather than robots and it is this very relatability that seems to make him very popular among other riders (Mir excepted)
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October 29th, 2021, 04:23 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Which is not an issue and is rare to have in a rider, so even when looked at in that way, it shows that Jack is actually in amongst a bundle of riders, many who are extremely well respected and regarded, just not at the supreme upper echelon and in that I see no harm, still a good spot.

Jack has won 3 races in his career and has around 13 podiums so far in a career that is not over. He has more race wins than many riders including some world champions and more podiums than many other riders. His career race to podium percentage is better than 10% which a factory would want to be higher but it is a better ratio than that of a number of riders of today and past that people in some areas treat differently.

Jack is simply Jack and very very few riders are a Mick Doohan (an avowed MD tragic here) or a Marquez but even those guys have struggled from time to time riding around problems.

As for skill, I feel that he is not that lacking on riders of his era, and may well be right there with them but the difference is not about a riding skill but a mental skill and for some people, that final component may not be possible. I mean, many people cannot be the take no prisoners rider of a Marquez or Doohan, guys who will happily ride you to the edge of the track and make you choose to fall or fail (all legal mind).

All up, for me Jack is the next tier down the rung but still way up from the bottom - you do not achieve that which he has without talent and sure race wins aren't there but skills I do see.

Plus for me, he is relatable and the sport needs relatable characters rather than robots and it is this very relatability that seems to make him very popular among other riders (Mir excepted)
Yeah don't disagree.
He needs to be more consistent.

He needs to be able to make his tyres last to be stronger at the end of the race.

There is alot of talent coming through and as you say he is not looking like winning a championship.

A factory seat is a very expensive and privileged position to be in.
I can understand him being moved on for a more consistent performer given the talent coming through.

He is very likeable and an honest character.
I am happy to see him stay but I am happier to see him stay with more consistency.

I am Australian too but don't really care what nationality riders are.

I care about ability and personality far ahead of nationality.
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October 29th, 2021, 04:43 PM   #73
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Jack is in the same position as Dovi is with changing from the Ducati to the Yamaha, both riders used the Ducati’s hard braking into turns, then hard acceleration out of the corner.

Dovi is trying to change his style on the Yamaha into retaining the speed through the corner like Mav, Quato, and Lorenzo. Pecco has mastered that style, Jack has to do the same, to add that style to lap faster, and save the tyres.
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October 29th, 2021, 04:56 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
Yeah don't disagree.
He needs to be more consistent.

He needs to be able to make his tyres last to be stronger at the end of the race.

There is alot of talent coming through and as you say he is not looking like winning a championship.

A factory seat is a very expensive and privileged position to be in.
I can understand him being moved on for a more consistent performer given the talent coming through.

He is very likeable and an honest character.
I am happy to see him stay but I am happier to see him stay with more consistency.

I am Australian too but don't really care what nationality riders are.

I care about ability and personality far ahead of nationality.
Unless he really ups his game, I can't see Ducati re-signing him at the end of 2022. Maybe he stays on a Duc but not a factory ride.
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October 29th, 2021, 05:09 PM   #75
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Unless he really ups his game, I can't see Ducati re-signing him at the end of 2022. Maybe he stays on a Duc but not a factory ride.
Who would see Ducati, replacing him with, Zarco, Martin, Bastianini, Marini, not a lot of consistency there either yet.
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October 29th, 2021, 05:41 PM   #76
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Who would see Ducati, replacing him with, Zarco, Martin, Bastianini, Marini, not a lot of consistency there either yet.

I don't know but I think 2022 is a make-or-break year for Jack on the factory bike. Marini will be with VR46. I hope Bastianini continues to develop and contend for podiums. I guess he'll be on a GP21 next year. I'm glad Fabio won the championship but I'm rooting for Bastianini to get podiums in these last two races.
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October 30th, 2021, 01:37 PM   #77
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I’m rooting for Jack to win another race this year. I think Jack’s problem is mainly mental. He has proven that he has pace. He has proven he can qualify well. He’s on a good factory bike.

The crashing later in the race has to be down to some fixable problem. Strength? Work out harder. Endurance? 3 hour bicycle ride.

But, Jack has to have the will to fix what needs fixing. And he better get on the stick and get to fixing in short order.

Would love for him to do better.
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October 30th, 2021, 03:03 PM   #78
Gaz
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Originally Posted by Bern1 View Post
I’m rooting for Jack to win another race this year. I think Jack’s problem is mainly mental. He has proven that he has pace. He has proven he can qualify well. He’s on a good factory bike.

The crashing later in the race has to be down to some fixable problem. Strength? Work out harder. Endurance? 3 hour bicycle ride.

But, Jack has to have the will to fix what needs fixing. And he better get on the stick and get to fixing in short order.

Would love for him to do better.

Agree, but one of my prime concerns regards 2022 is whether Ducati decide to invest in him and give him a 'fair go' in terms of support inside the sheds, or will they put all their eggs into the Pecco basket as an Italian rider on an Italian bike to win the title.

It would not be the first time where Ducati seem to want the Italian combination to work and while I mention how that may be detrimental to Miller, it could also be interesting to see how Pecco may handle the pressure as well.
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October 30th, 2021, 04:25 PM   #79
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Well maybe not quite “mental” , but defiantly attitude, the way he beats his chest like he is going out to do hand to hand combat, pumping up the adrenaline is not going to help him to relax, and ride smooth, though it’s handy for doing Argentinean pole laps.
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October 30th, 2021, 04:35 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Which is not an issue and is rare to have in a rider, so even when looked at in that way, it shows that Jack is actually in amongst a bundle of riders, many who are extremely well respected and regarded, just not at the supreme upper echelon and in that I see no harm, still a good spot.

Jack has won 3 races in his career and has around 13 podiums so far in a career that is not over. He has more race wins than many riders including some world champions and more podiums than many other riders. His career race to podium percentage is better than 10% which a factory would want to be higher but it is a better ratio than that of a number of riders of today and past that people in some areas treat differently.

Jack is simply Jack and very very few riders are a Mick Doohan (an avowed MD tragic here) or a Marquez but even those guys have struggled from time to time riding around problems.

As for skill, I feel that he is not that lacking on riders of his era, and may well be right there with them but the difference is not about a riding skill but a mental skill and for some people, that final component may not be possible. I mean, many people cannot be the take no prisoners rider of a Marquez or Doohan, guys who will happily ride you to the edge of the track and make you choose to fall or fail (all legal mind).

All up, for me Jack is the next tier down the rung but still way up from the bottom - you do not achieve that which he has without talent and sure race wins aren't there but skills I do see.

Plus for me, he is relatable and the sport needs relatable characters rather than robots and it is this very relatability that seems to make him very popular among other riders (Mir excepted)
In a nutshell... he's kind of above average.
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