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October 24th, 2021, 10:00 PM   #41
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I do believe I understand where it comes from. It's the whole Shogun feudal mentality. The wealthiest warlords who could convey the greatest status, were always the ones who attracted the deadliest and most talented samurai clans, allowing them to dominate all the lesser warlords. It wasn't that the Shogun made the best swords or smartest battle strategies, they just paid more money to hire the best employees.

I still maintain, that the whole rider-development thing is greatly (not entirely) exaggerated in the minds of us fans. I would love to be able to do an interview with a few riders to see what they say about this.
Sure, most of their titles have been won by all time great riders. Whether Honda made them so is a different question, but 2 of them also won titles on Yamahas.

I also have my doubts about development both in general and by MM in particular, but my working hypothesis has been that Honda have been concentrating on their F1 effort and haven’t really done much with the motogp bike, and the engine in particular, which was likely designed around bespoke software they no longer have with the control ECU etc.

I am still more of a Casey Stoner fan than an MM fan, but to me those duels with Bagnaia while no doubt demonstrating Bagnaia’s quality also showed MM still has something special, having competitive whole lap pace despite the Ducati appearing to have the advantage in most respects.
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October 24th, 2021, 11:37 PM   #42
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Sure, most of their titles have been won by all time great riders. Whether Honda made them so is a different question, but 2 of them also won titles on Yamahas.



I also have my doubts about development both in general and by MM in particular, but my working hypothesis has been that Honda have been concentrating on their F1 effort and haven’t really done much with the motogp bike, and the engine in particular, which was likely designed around bespoke software they no longer have with the control ECU etc.



I am still more of a Casey Stoner fan than an MM fan, but to me those duels with Bagnaia while no doubt demonstrating Bagnaia’s quality also showed MM still has something special, having competitive whole lap pace despite the Ducati appearing to have the advantage in most respects.
Not a bad working hypothesis.
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October 25th, 2021, 05:27 AM   #43
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Sure, most of their titles have been won by all time great riders. Whether Honda made them so is a different question, but 2 of them also won titles on Yamahas.

I also have my doubts about development both in general and by MM in particular, but my working hypothesis has been that Honda have been concentrating on their F1 effort and haven’t really done much with the motogp bike, and the engine in particular, which was likely designed around bespoke software they no longer have with the control ECU etc.

I am still more of a Casey Stoner fan than an MM fan, but to me those duels with Bagnaia while no doubt demonstrating Bagnaia’s quality also showed MM still has something special, having competitive whole lap pace despite the Ducati appearing to have the advantage in most respects.
Absolutely. The Ducati was (is) working so well now. I know the commentators were selling the idea that Marquez psyched Bagnaia into making a mistake, but I call bullshit on that. Bagnaia was unshakeably confident. I blame the team’s decision to use that hard tire. On a soft or medium, he’d have kept MM behind him no problem.
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October 25th, 2021, 05:56 AM   #44
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Absolutely. The Ducati was (is) working so well now. I know the commentators were selling the idea that Marquez psyched Bagnaia into making a mistake, but I call bullshit on that. Bagnaia was unshakeably confident. I blame the team’s decision to use that hard tire. On a soft or medium, he’d have kept MM behind him no problem.
I disagree, I think Bagnaia got pressured into that mistake. They were 4-5 seconds down the road by that point which in this current era is a huge gap. I think when he was transitioning between corners he just overloaded the front and the front did exactly what it does when its overloaded, give out.

I don't think there's any shame in it because he was riding a great race till that happened.
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October 25th, 2021, 06:31 AM   #45
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Absolutely. The Ducati was (is) working so well now. I know the commentators were selling the idea that Marquez psyched Bagnaia into making a mistake, but I call bullshit on that. Bagnaia was unshakeably confident. I blame the team’s decision to use that hard tire. On a soft or medium, he’d have kept MM behind him no problem.
It was something of an error of judgement imo. MM himself said post race he was about to settle for second. He put the bike down the road just after he made the push to get the gap out to over a second. He didn’t need to do this, it is very hard for MM to make a pass stick on the Ducati as their last duel demonstrated. I think he was pushing though.
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October 25th, 2021, 07:17 AM   #46
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I think Bagnaia was pushing a little harder as he was expecting a Marquez effort to pass him at the end of the race, which was coming right up. Another awesome psych job by Marquez.
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October 25th, 2021, 08:00 AM   #47
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Oh, and I forgot, Bastinini was really something on that two-year-old bike. Haven't followed all the silly season developments. Will the kid get a newer bike next year?
He's going to Gresini and will stay on a customer Ducati. Not sure if it will be a year old or 2 year old model though.

Quote:
Repsol Honda:
Marc Marquez (End of 2024)
Pol Espargaro (End of 2022)

Monster Yamaha:
Franco Morbidelli (End of 2023)
Fabio Quartararo (End of 2022)

Lenovo Ducati:
Jack Miller (End of 2022)
Francesco Bagnaia (End of 2022)

Suzuki:
Alex Rins (End of 2022)
Joan Mir (End of 2022)

Aprilia:
Aleix Espargaro (End of 2022)
Maverick Vinales (End of 2022)
Lorenzo Savadori (End of 2021)

Red Bull KTM:
Miguel Oliveira (End of 2022)
Brad Binder (End of 2024)

Independent Teams

Tech3 KTM:
Remy Gardner (KTM contract, end of 2022)*
Raul Fernandez (KTM contract, end of 2022)*

Gresini Ducati:
Fabio di Giannantonio (End of 2022)*
Enea Bastianini (End of 2022)

WithU RNF Yamaha Team:
Andrea Dovizioso (End of 2022, Yamaha contract)
Darryn Binder (Yamaha contract, end of 2022, option for 2023)
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October 25th, 2021, 08:31 AM   #48
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Excited to see if Gardner’s talent will see him to the happening part of the party.
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October 25th, 2021, 01:32 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
I disagree, I think Bagnaia got pressured into that mistake. They were 4-5 seconds down the road by that point which in this current era is a huge gap. I think when he was transitioning between corners he just overloaded the front and the front did exactly what it does when its overloaded, give out.

I don't think there's any shame in it because he was riding a great race till that happened.
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I think Bagnaia was pushing a little harder as he was expecting a Marquez effort to pass him at the end of the race, which was coming right up. Another awesome psych job by Marquez.
He certainly got pressured which forced him to up his pace and loose the front. He needs to work on his race strategy. He should have been looking at Marc pit board to see the distance of the 3rd place rider. Knowing that Pol was over 5 seconds behind Marc . All he had to do was let Marc passed, trailed him to the last 2 laps and use the ducati advantage.
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October 25th, 2021, 04:57 PM   #50
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Bags seems too have ice water for blood, so I would blame the terrible tires.

Or a bad decision by the teams.
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