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September 9th, 2021, 09:10 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Little Walter View Post
It is fair to say that by virtue of Stoner repeatedly beating both Lorenzo and Rossi in their prime on that POS Ducati, that he's high up there in the pantheon of GOATs. Until the advent of Fabio it has not seemed Marquez has had anyone who could consistently match him in ability and spirit.
Some of the reason I was so gutted to see Lorenzo flop on the Honda. I was looking forward to a Prost/Senna 1989 esque battle
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September 9th, 2021, 09:29 AM   #42
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I think the notion that MM can ride anything, has some cracks in it, given his performance on this years bike.

What Casey did on that 07 pile of shite, is the greatest thing we have ever seen on a motorbike, in modern times.
It may not I have seen quite as sexy back in 07, but in hindsight, after watching rider after rider fail in subsequent years, it was a moonshot of achievement
An actual bike racing post which I hadn’t seen when I posted on the other thread.

KRSR and the pomp of Fast Freddie were before my time, but Eddie Lawson has to be up there, jumped off the Yamaha and on to a Honda 500 when the Honda was a brutal device and promptly won the title straight up.

I remain a Stoner fanboy of course and could have watched him ride laps on his own all day, particularly at PI, and liked what Shuehi Nakamoto said admittedly early in MM’s premier class career, Marc has faster reflexes but Casey is a genius on a bike. Something else he said while Stoner was still racing is also relevant imo, ‘when he is happy he is so fast’; he obviously wasn’t always happy. There is not much complexity about MM as a competitor, he is a born shark, perhaps a disadvantage at times including the Willairot incident and now, with both his major injuries also resulting from unnecessary attempts to prove something to FQ as well. For Stoner racing seemed to be mainly an exercise at getting the bike to go as fast as could be managed against the track as much as his competitors. I think it took extreme focus/that he really had to wind himself up to ride like he did particularly on the Ducati, and I doubt that was ever going to be sustainable for Doohan, Rossi or MM -like runs of titles. Dovi actually said he was a different person after his retirement from racing when he was testing for Ducati compared with when they were both riding for HRC. Lex, an extremely smart/perceptive poster on here back in the day thought some of his problems with the media were from a delayed reaction to the extreme edge on which he had ridden for the whole race once he got off the bike, while MM for most of his career has seemed to be hardly perturbed by anything.

Last edited by michaelm; September 9th, 2021 at 07:39 PM.
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September 9th, 2021, 09:40 AM   #43
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Some of the reason I was so gutted to see Lorenzo flop on the Honda. I was looking forward to a Prost/Senna 1989 esque battle
Regarding Lorenzo, I'm re-watching the 2015 season...and what a year it was...but watching Lorenzo is a thing of beauty. He's so freakin' smooth and makes it look so easy but we all know it's not. I wish he was still racing.
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September 9th, 2021, 09:48 AM   #44
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Regarding Lorenzo, I'm re-watching the 2015 season...and what a year it was...but watching Lorenzo is a thing of beauty. He's so freakin' smooth and makes it look so easy but we all know it's not. I wish he was still racing.
Yes, in ‘butter hammer’ mode he was something to behold.

The wet races were difficult for him in 2015, he was never the same in the wet after the Assen 2013 crash which likely deprived him of a 4th title. Him riding so soon after the fractured clavicle probably didn’t help MM either, he thought he could do the same with a fractured humerus, a rather more crucial bone.
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September 9th, 2021, 10:00 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Yes, in ‘butter hammer’ mode he was something to behold.

The wet races were difficult for him in 2015, he was never the same in the wet after the Assen 2013 crash which likely deprived him of a 4th title. Him riding so soon after the fractured clavicle probably didn’t help MM either, he thought he could do the same with a fractured humerus, a rather more crucial bone.
This is up your alley. A couple years ago I dislocated my SC joint. My arm will never work the same. They debated on doing a surgery by drilling a hole in my sternum and tying the collar back to it with a tendon but decide it most likely would not make much of a difference.
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September 9th, 2021, 10:00 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
An actual bike racing post which I hadn’t seen when I posted on the other thread.

KRSR and the pomp of Fast Freddie were before my time, but Eddie Lawson has to be up there, jumped off the Yamaha and on to a Honda 500 when the Honda was a brutal device and promptly won the title straight up.

I remain a Stoner fanboy of course and could have watched him ride laps on his own all day, particularly at PI, and liked what Shuehi Nakamoto said admittedly early in MM’s premier class career, Marc has faster reflexes but Casey is a genius on a bike. Something else he said while Stoner was still racing is also relevant imo, ‘when he is happy he is so fast’; he obviously wasn’t always happy. There is not much complexity about MM as a competitor, he is a born shark, perhaps a disadvantage at times including the Willairot incident and now, with both his major injuries also resulting from unnecessary attempts to prove something to FQ as well. For Stoner racing seemed to be mainly an exercise at getting the bike to go as fast as could be managed against the track as much as his competitors. I think it took extreme focus/that he really had to wind himself up to ride like he did particularly on the Ducati, and I doubt that was ever going to be sustainable for Doohan, Rossi or MM -like runs of titles. Dovi actually said he was a different person after his retirement from racing when he was testing for Ducati compared with when they were both riding for HRC. Lex, an extremely smart/perceptive positer on here back in the day thought some of his problems with the media were from a delayed reaction to the extreme edge on which he had ridden for the whole race once he got off the bike, while MM for most of his career has seemed to bechardly perturbed by anything.
I want to say Mike, that sounds a lot like PTSD, but of course you wouldn't posit anything like that, as it might be construed as cod psychology.
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September 9th, 2021, 10:00 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Yes, in ‘butter hammer’ mode he was something to behold.

The wet races were difficult for him in 2015, he was never the same in the wet after the Assen 2013 crash which likely deprived him of a 4th title. Him riding so soon after the fractured clavicle probably didn’t help MM either, he thought he could do the same with a fractured humerus, a rather more crucial bone.
Yea, the wet race at Silverstone was a great ride by Rossi. He had Marquez on his rear wheel the whole way until MM high-sided. The next round in Misano was crazy. Dry...to wet....to dry. Rossi was fortunate to take 5th after staying out too long on the wets with a dry line on the track. Lorenzo crashed. Those wet tires were flinging off rubber like crazy. Amazing they lasted as long as they did though the first guys to come back in for slicks were lapping 9 or 10 seconds faster than Rossi at that point but still, he stayed out on the wets.
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September 9th, 2021, 10:12 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
This is up your alley. A couple years ago I dislocated my SC joint. My arm will never work the same. They debated on doing a surgery by drilling a hole in my sternum and tying the collar back to it with a tendon but decide it most likely would not make much of a difference.
Good to avoid any kind of experimental surgery, unless your life depends on it. My first bike crash, resulted in a total A/B separation of my shoulder. One surgeon tried to talk me into a procedure to repair it. Then I talked to two other guys who had the same surgery. They spent 9 months in an upper body cast waiting for it to heal, and the minute the cast came off… the surgery failed.

Genuinely sorry to hear of the injury. I’ve fractured both collar bones and even two years after being “fully healed” I would get like electric shocks of pain at the injury site from time to time. Bad bone to injure.
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September 9th, 2021, 10:40 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by PRS717 View Post
Regarding Lorenzo, I'm re-watching the 2015 season...and what a year it was...but watching Lorenzo is a thing of beauty. He's so freakin' smooth and makes it look so easy but we all know it's not. I wish he was still racing.
Indeed, his pole lap for Valencia 2015, under the circumstances and pressure he was under, was one of the greatest bike laps I've ever seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Yes, in ‘butter hammer’ mode he was something to behold.

The wet races were difficult for him in 2015, he was never the same in the wet after the Assen 2013 crash which likely deprived him of a 4th title. Him riding so soon after the fractured clavicle probably didn’t help MM either, he thought he could do the same with a fractured humerus, a rather more crucial bone.
These guys are heroes.
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September 9th, 2021, 06:20 PM   #50
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I want to say Mike, that sounds a lot like PTSD, but of course you wouldn't posit anything like that, as it might be construed as cod psychology.
Again, I am of the view that diagnoses, especially psychological or psychiatric diagnoses with insufficient information and particularly over the internet are fraught with error. My non-professional opinion was more in regard to his personality type. After Laguna Seca 2008 Rossi’s reaction was ‘great race’, Stoner’s more you nearly killed me you bastard. I don’t think it is wildly speculative to say Simoncelli’s death affected Rossi though.

One of your previous diagnoses on Stoner looks to have been correct btw, we hear little from him these days even in the Australian press, but he has been quoted as saying he is suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome which was your diagnosis in 2009.
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