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August 11th, 2021, 08:45 AM   #31
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I believe the Michelin tires are one of the biggest issues. It's clear they are trying to turn MotoGP into a lottery where you don't know which team is going to matchup with the track they're at, and what they get from the tire allocation. You have to design the bikes entirely to what the tires give you. That may be HRC's major issue; they're designing the bike the way they want rather than how they need to design it.
Suzuki has taken the opposite tact, won a world championship and remained competitive, with arguably less talent than other manufacturers have.
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August 11th, 2021, 10:34 AM   #32
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Honda's situation is very much a repeat of Ducati/Stoner isn't it? Superstar rider masking the true deficiencies of the bike and thwarted by handling issues that a bespoke tyre would fix almost instantly.
I think it is an exact repeat. You have Darth Puig running the goddamn team, and we know exactly the sort of shit he's been willing to do over the years to the detriment of the riders.

2020 should have revealed to everyone how bad the RC213V actually is as a bike. I also believe the Michelin rear had a lot to do with MM's Jerez highside last year, it looked like he was sliding through the corner and got instant traction which would fit with the rear getting grippier.

I'd also say that the very fact that Michelin were allowed to design a tire to help the inline 4 bikes be more competitive is fucking disgusting and brings back memories of the SNS tires. I recognize Ducati has won several races this season, but if you took away the stupid wings on the fairings and the hole shot devices (which I believe should be banned in particular) where would they be? All this shit makes it more costly to design a bike, and given how insistent Dorna were on keeping costs down, I'm not seeing that happening.

MotoGP's integrity keeps going down because of Dorna.

The series NEEDS to get back to prototype racing. I don't watch because I want the same silly shit as F1 with garbage tires and reliance on ever-increasing aero design. I would like to see Honda bring back the V5 engine for example to see what they could do with that sort of design now. Creativity, ingenuity, interesting ideas are becoming less commonplace now not just in GP but most of the major racing series because the belief is that close racing at any cost means better racing. Sorry, that's a load of horseshit.
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August 11th, 2021, 10:53 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
Creativity, ingenuity, interesting ideas are becoming less commonplace now not just in GP but most of the major racing series because the belief is that close racing at any cost means better racing. Sorry, that's a load of horseshit.
I'm inclined to agree with this. Even at karting level there are stock 4 stroke classes with extremely limited regulations to make the racing close, which it is if you love pack racing and bump drafting but you get a lot more accidents because of it.

Faster, more open classes have a larger field spread but the racing is arguably better.
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August 11th, 2021, 02:33 PM   #34
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I'm inclined to agree with this. Even at karting level there are stock 4 stroke classes with extremely limited regulations to make the racing close, which it is if you love pack racing and bump drafting but you get a lot more accidents because of it.

Faster, more open classes have a larger field spread but the racing is arguably better.
Apparently there aren't age restrictions

What do you mean carting level. As if there’s a class below it.
Well, unless you consider prams a class
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August 11th, 2021, 08:27 PM   #35
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I think it is an exact repeat. You have Darth Puig running the goddamn team, and we know exactly the sort of shit he's been willing to do over the years to the detriment of the riders.

2020 should have revealed to everyone how bad the RC213V actually is as a bike. I also believe the Michelin rear had a lot to do with MM's Jerez highside last year, it looked like he was sliding through the corner and got instant traction which would fit with the rear getting grippier.

I'd also say that the very fact that Michelin were allowed to design a tire to help the inline 4 bikes be more competitive is fucking disgusting and brings back memories of the SNS tires. I recognize Ducati has won several races this season, but if you took away the stupid wings on the fairings and the hole shot devices (which I believe should be banned in particular) where would they be? All this shit makes it more costly to design a bike, and given how insistent Dorna were on keeping costs down, I'm not seeing that happening.

MotoGP's integrity keeps going down because of Dorna.

The series NEEDS to get back to prototype racing. I don't watch because I want the same silly shit as F1 with garbage tires and reliance on ever-increasing aero design. I would like to see Honda bring back the V5 engine for example to see what they could do with that sort of design now. Creativity, ingenuity, interesting ideas are becoming less commonplace now not just in GP but most of the major racing series because the belief is that close racing at any cost means better racing. Sorry, that's a load of horseshit.
Is it that the design of the tyre suits the inline 4 riding style more but is still a better tyre overall or a tyre that helps inline 4s at the detriment to the v4 configuration. It is hard not to notice that the French tyre supplier has made a tyre that helps the French riders bike more than the v4's when 4 out of the 6 manufactures use v4's.

I don't want to see races decided by the haves and have not tyre wise which is why I don't mind a control tyre but I believe that Michelin has been a bust. The riders have more or less being gagged on any criticism of Michelin, the inconsistency and sometimes outright danger (see this weekend) of their tyres. The tyres appear to be substandard and by all accounts don't give any warning before they let go. Perhaps the fairest option is for manufacturers to sign with a tyre supplier they see fit to use and all tyre options for that manufacturer/tyre supplier combo being available to all riders regardless of if they're in a factory or satellite team.

I even like control electronics, they have more or less removed a giant advantage the factory teams had in the past which is a major reason IMO why we are seeing satellite teams doing so well now.

Obviously we don't have the figures in front of us but I would have to assume it's cheaper to design tyres around bikes that bikes around a tyre. As long as it could be achieved fairly, which I think is the issue, then I think it should be done.

I'm unsure how the RD to develop 5 racing engines that have to last 20 races is cheaper than building engines to last a weekend or two. I like the homologation rule about upgrades during the year, though I wouldn't mind one allowed a season or something but I can't for the life of me see how all the R&D work that goes into making sure these engines can last an average of 4 weekends each is cheaper than rebuilding an engine after every weekend or something like that.

I agree re: v5 and engine configurations etc. As long as its under the CC limit then they should be able to race what they like.

I'm not sure I agree or disagree with you about aero, on one hand I agree that and I think it sucks on the other hand though it is supposed to be prototype racing and if the aero helps the bike get around the track quicker then it should be allowed. Unless you want to cut costs as you have said, in which case allowing aero makes next to no sense.
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August 12th, 2021, 04:41 AM   #36
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I agree re: v5 and engine configurations etc. As long as its under the CC limit then they should be able to race what they like.
Bring back the Aprilia Cube!
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August 12th, 2021, 10:23 PM   #37
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Bring back the Aprilia Cube!

Colin says no - they singe the hair on your balls

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September 14th, 2021, 03:50 AM   #38
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Going back to this somewhat, I was listening to an 'old' Soupkast podcast yesterday (from mid 2019) and they were talking about Lorenzo prior to his retirement announcement.

Interestingly they said he had gotten the hurry up from HRC and on the Wednesday of the Assen race they laid out all the 'Lorenzo specific' parts in his garage and asked him which he thinks he needs to make the bike work for him. He apparently chose a number of parts that had been made for him either in late 2018 or early 2019 and he had rejected. When they said that to him, things got heated which is what lead to him going too hard in FP1 and have that massive crash that almost broke his neck.

Interesting story if true.
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September 14th, 2021, 04:10 AM   #39
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Suzuki has taken the opposite tact, won a world championship and remained competitive, with arguably less talent than other manufacturers have.
Yes, Suzuki have always been tactful.
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September 14th, 2021, 05:32 AM   #40
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Yes, Suzuki have always been tactful.


I have chosen to ignore all the misspellings and malapropisms, but after a while, they do stack up.

Last edited by Keshav; September 14th, 2021 at 07:36 AM.
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