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January 7th, 2021, 02:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman View Post
On the numbers, Rossi.

Either retirement in 2010 or a 10th championship in 2015 would probably make it definitive. And yet the move to Ducati followed by an 11 year championship drought has to count for something. Too old? Then stop racing. It’s no excuse when he has been privileged enough to be on factory machinery the entire time.

Lawson.

It’s only just dawned on me, now that we are comparing riders, that what he achieved in 89 would have been the equivalent of Rossi winning the championship in 2011 while on the Ducati riding against Stoner on the same bike.

In 1989 the Honda was, if not as bad as a 2011 Ducati, then probably worse. It didnt just understeer or feel feel vague at the front, it also somewhat randomly and violently highsided. Doohan as a rookie admitted the bike had him spooked and he was ready to quit.

Gardner was reputedly supposed to go to Yamaha in Lawsons place, was even offered more money than Honda to do so, but baulked and decided he had a better chance to beat Lawson on the Honda he was, in all fairness, much more familiar and accomplished on.

The Yamaha was well known to be the diametrical opposite of the Honda. So Gardner stayed, forcing Lawson into a somewhat privateer third bike team with Kanemoto.

Can you imagine it, Rossi in 2011 on a Pramac defeating Stoner on the works Duc.

We haven’t seen it before, we likely won’t see it again. I have no doubt either Stoner or Marquez could beat Rossi, even in his prime, on a Yamaha. But Rossi being Rossi would never allow such a scenario to take place.

By comparison, not only did Lawson take on the Honda challenge but he is also credited with coaching Doohan to ‘think’ more about the art of riding a 500cc, even going into specifics which Doohan himself admits was invaluable. So he helped his future competition get better.

Imo it’s not simply a numbers game. Any rider can get the rub of the green so to speak. To be best of the best you really have to welcome and be ready to take on all challengers in all circumstances. Lawson and Rossi both took the risk to prove how good they really were, yet only one came out on top.
I have always agreed with you about Lawson. Even in his last years he won races on a Cagiva, when there were no control tires or anything else, perhaps more equivalent to winning on a Kawasaki than winning on the 2010 and 2011-12 Ducati.
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January 7th, 2021, 12:44 PM   #12
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Here's a thought to ponder for you guys...

Given Yamaha's commitment to the inline 4, if we could roll 10-15 years off of Rossi's biological clock, if he demanded that they switch to a V4 configuration, do you think they would?
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January 7th, 2021, 03:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
Here's a thought to ponder for you guys...

Given Yamaha's commitment to the inline 4, if we could roll 10-15 years off of Rossi's biological clock, if he demanded that they switch to a V4 configuration, do you think they would?
He pretty much did when Stoner was beating him in 2007, but backed off after going to pneumatic valves gave the I4 a power increase.
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January 9th, 2021, 08:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman View Post
On the numbers, Rossi.

Either retirement in 2010 or a 10th championship in 2015 would probably make it definitive. And yet the move to Ducati followed by an 11 year championship drought has to count for something. Too old? Then stop racing. Itís no excuse when he has been privileged enough to be on factory machinery the entire time.

Lawson.

Itís only just dawned on me, now that we are comparing riders, that what he achieved in 89 would have been the equivalent of Rossi winning the championship in 2011 while on the Ducati riding against Stoner on the same bike.

In 1989 the Honda was, if not as bad as a 2011 Ducati, then probably worse. It didnt just understeer or feel feel vague at the front, it also somewhat randomly and violently highsided. Doohan as a rookie admitted the bike had him spooked and he was ready to quit.

Gardner was reputedly supposed to go to Yamaha in Lawsons place, was even offered more money than Honda to do so, but baulked and decided he had a better chance to beat Lawson on the Honda he was, in all fairness, much more familiar and accomplished on.

The Yamaha was well known to be the diametrical opposite of the Honda. So Gardner stayed, forcing Lawson into a somewhat privateer third bike team with Kanemoto.

Can you imagine it, Rossi in 2011 on a Pramac defeating Stoner on the works Duc.

We havenít seen it before, we likely wonít see it again. I have no doubt either Stoner or Marquez could beat Rossi, even in his prime, on a Yamaha. But Rossi being Rossi would never allow such a scenario to take place.

By comparison, not only did Lawson take on the Honda challenge but he is also credited with coaching Doohan to Ďthinkí more about the art of riding a 500cc, even going into specifics which Doohan himself admits was invaluable. So he helped his future competition get better.

Imo itís not simply a numbers game. Any rider can get the rub of the green so to speak. To be best of the best you really have to welcome and be ready to take on all challengers in all circumstances. Lawson and Rossi both took the risk to prove how good they really were, yet only one came out on top.
This post reminds me of that ad where Lawson and Gardner stare each other down nose to nose. Helmet ad?
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