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November 28th, 2020, 03:28 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
Pretty hard for one whose style involves pushing the front over the limit to be that much more pragmatic in assessing risk imo.
He pushes so hard in practice so he is clearer where the limit is in the race.
His ability to push the front of the machine so hard is a large factor behind his dominance.

Is it possible to seperate that and still be such a force?
I am not sure that it is.
He may knock it back a bit but I just don't see it disappearing. It seems integral to his approach and style.
Yes it aint risk free, easy or safe. I don't see it disappearing entirely should he come back though.

Every multi championship rider I have watched has tried to establish dominance and hold onto it.
It is part of who they are.
Agreed. On the spectrum I would say at one extreme we have a rider like Dovi who is highly cerebral on the bike, a thinking mans rider, while at the other extreme there is Marquez, almost purely instinctive, reliant to high degree on those cat like reflexes. Obviously heís not thinking about it, ie Iím going to lose the front here and save it there.
In an ideal world Dovi would ride more like Marquez and vice versa. I donít know if either can. To think back which riders had the ability to be both the most obvious would have to be Rossi.
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November 28th, 2020, 03:54 PM   #52
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Agreed. On the spectrum I would say at one extreme we have a rider like Dovi who is highly cerebral on the bike, a thinking mans rider, while at the other extreme there is Marquez, almost purely instinctive, reliant to high degree on those cat like reflexes. Obviously he’s not thinking about it, ie I’m going to lose the front here and save it there.
In an ideal world Dovi would ride more like Marquez and vice versa. I don’t know if either can. To think back which riders had the ability to be both the most obvious would have to be Rossi.
Eddie Lawson was the ultimate cerebral rider imo. I guess Schwantz and Gardner were like MM if not as good obviously. Rossi like MM could indeed pull more out in a race when motivated, cf the famous ride after the grid penalty, while remaining cool reputedly with a heart rate not much above 100.

Perhaps the humeral fracture which was a result of a crash in a race when MM had already been doing the impossible for most of the race after his early race travails and was in his ultra hyper racing mode was an extension of his intrinsic method which is indeed what has made him close to incomparably great, but iirc the crash which caused the shoulder injury was not in such circumstances.

I go both ways on this. Sure it is carping to criticise his method even implicitly, since that method is what has made him great, perhaps even the greatest if one cares to rank riders, and 8 titles using that method is hardly shabby obviously.

On the other hand if he wants to surpass all records, and Rossi's in particular (which he most assuredly does in regard to the latter at least), he needs to ride a little longer as has been said, and he has shown an ability to temper things a little, appearing to recognise after PI 2015 that there were ways to win a race other than dominating from the start, seeming to ride for position in some races to win a title with the shoulder injury, etc. So there is an element of deliberate choice for him I believe, and even if you look at the titles he has won since 2015 he has been fairly crash free until he clinched the title then not so much for the remainder of the given season.

Last edited by michaelm; November 28th, 2020 at 07:36 PM.
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November 28th, 2020, 05:07 PM   #53
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History indicates riders who are, for lack of a better word, more balls than brains win plenty of races but not so much world championships, yet even with that realisation still find it almost impossible to change their ways. For example Gardner one, Schwantz one, Stoner two as compared to Lawson 4, Rossi 7. Maybe the likes of Marquez 6 and Doohan 5 are either simply more talented or through experience learn to temper their desire to win at all cost, but I would have to presume they can’t turn it off completely, sometimes they have to let the dog out to play or else it just ain’t fun being cooped up all the time.
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February 14th, 2021, 11:04 AM   #54
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I was hoping this would not be the case but I've seen this sort of situation before where there's poor healing with the need for further surgery and bone grafting.

This could well be career altering unfortunately. Wrong limb is the problem. With a leg, he could do a Doohan. However, the upper limbs take a lot of force under braking.

This final procedure had better work.
Speaking from experience, I broke my humerus arm bone in a cycling accident in the same place Marc did. Had a lot of complications and numerous operations. It was a long painful recovery to say the least. This was 8 years ago and I can honestly say itís really effected the strength in my arm. I find especially when on my motorcycle, there is a lot of strain on it. The seating position puts a lot of forward stress on it as well under heavy breaking. Naturally my riding style needed to adjust which I found added more stress on my shoulder and fore arm. Iíve never had issues with arm pump before until after this injury and Iíve never been able to ride the same again because of it . If Marcís recovers is anything like mine I donít think weíll see him win another championship again and So far it looks like his recovery has been much more difficult. Hopefully he will be ok, if not maybe a transition to F1 (if possible) would be cool to see.
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February 14th, 2021, 12:35 PM   #55
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Speaking from experience, I broke my humerus arm bone in a cycling accident in the same place Marc did. Had a lot of complications and numerous operations. It was a long painful recovery to say the least. This was 8 years ago and I can honestly say itís really effected the strength in my arm. I find especially when on my motorcycle, there is a lot of strain on it. The seating position puts a lot of forward stress on it as well under heavy breaking. Naturally my riding style needed to adjust which I found added more stress on my shoulder and fore arm. Iíve never had issues with arm pump before until after this injury and Iíve never been able to ride the same again because of it . If Marcís recovers is anything like mine I donít think weíll see him win another championship again and So far it looks like his recovery has been much more difficult. Hopefully he will be ok, if not maybe a transition to F1 (if possible) would be cool to see.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm not at all surprised by your experience in that you can ride again and live normally as 99% of the population does, but then have trouble when pushing to extremes of human tolerance and conditioning.
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