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November 28th, 2020, 04:28 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
Pretty hard for one whose style involves pushing the front over the limit to be that much more pragmatic in assessing risk imo.
He pushes so hard in practice so he is clearer where the limit is in the race.
His ability to push the front of the machine so hard is a large factor behind his dominance.

Is it possible to seperate that and still be such a force?
I am not sure that it is.
He may knock it back a bit but I just don't see it disappearing. It seems integral to his approach and style.
Yes it aint risk free, easy or safe. I don't see it disappearing entirely should he come back though.

Every multi championship rider I have watched has tried to establish dominance and hold onto it.
It is part of who they are.
Agreed. On the spectrum I would say at one extreme we have a rider like Dovi who is highly cerebral on the bike, a thinking mans rider, while at the other extreme there is Marquez, almost purely instinctive, reliant to high degree on those cat like reflexes. Obviously he’s not thinking about it, ie I’m going to lose the front here and save it there.
In an ideal world Dovi would ride more like Marquez and vice versa. I don’t know if either can. To think back which riders had the ability to be both the most obvious would have to be Rossi.
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November 28th, 2020, 04:54 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by birdman View Post
Agreed. On the spectrum I would say at one extreme we have a rider like Dovi who is highly cerebral on the bike, a thinking mans rider, while at the other extreme there is Marquez, almost purely instinctive, reliant to high degree on those cat like reflexes. Obviously he’s not thinking about it, ie I’m going to lose the front here and save it there.
In an ideal world Dovi would ride more like Marquez and vice versa. I don’t know if either can. To think back which riders had the ability to be both the most obvious would have to be Rossi.
Eddie Lawson was the ultimate cerebral rider imo. I guess Schwantz and Gardner were like MM if not as good obviously. Rossi like MM could indeed pull more out in a race when motivated, cf the famous ride after the grid penalty, while remaining cool reputedly with a heart rate not much above 100.

Perhaps the humeral fracture which was a result of a crash in a race when MM had already been doing the impossible for most of the race after his early race travails and was in his ultra hyper racing mode was an extension of his intrinsic method which is indeed what has made him close to incomparably great, but iirc the crash which caused the shoulder injury was not in such circumstances.

I go both ways on this. Sure it is carping to criticise his method even implicitly, since that method is what has made him great, perhaps even the greatest if one cares to rank riders, and 8 titles using that method is hardly shabby obviously.

On the other hand if he wants to surpass all records, and Rossi's in particular (which he most assuredly does in regard to the latter at least), he needs to ride a little longer as has been said, and he has shown an ability to temper things a little, appearing to recognise after PI 2015 that there were ways to win a race other than dominating from the start, seeming to ride for position in some races to win a title with the shoulder injury, etc. So there is an element of deliberate choice for him I believe, and even if you look at the titles he has won since 2015 he has been fairly crash free until he clinched the title then not so much for the remainder of the given season.

Last edited by michaelm; November 28th, 2020 at 08:36 PM.
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November 28th, 2020, 06:07 PM   #53
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History indicates riders who are, for lack of a better word, more balls than brains win plenty of races but not so much world championships, yet even with that realisation still find it almost impossible to change their ways. For example Gardner one, Schwantz one, Stoner two as compared to Lawson 4, Rossi 7. Maybe the likes of Marquez 6 and Doohan 5 are either simply more talented or through experience learn to temper their desire to win at all cost, but I would have to presume they can’t turn it off completely, sometimes they have to let the dog out to play or else it just ain’t fun being cooped up all the time.
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