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October 26th, 2020, 06:05 AM   #11
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I can just imagine Michelin giggling when they, yet again, make a critical tweak to the tyre compound/construction that reshuffles the balance of power come the last three races.
I'm pretty sure (like 95% sure), that the tyre allocation is decided before the season even begins - So the tyres for the next three races (with the exception of Portugal) have been in containers for a number of months now...
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October 26th, 2020, 09:36 AM   #12
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I'm pretty sure (like 95% sure), that the tyre allocation is decided before the season even begins - So the tyres for the next three races (with the exception of Portugal) have been in containers for a number of months now...
You're right. I see that they've instituted this since 2018!
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October 27th, 2020, 06:28 AM   #13
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With the "clear favorite" changing from week to week and the sheer number of riders still in the running for the championship, the whole thing starts to feel less than competition and more like a Bingo lottery. Anyone have B11?
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October 27th, 2020, 06:52 AM   #14
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With the "clear favorite" changing from week to week and the sheer number of riders still in the running for the championship, the whole thing starts to feel less than competition and more like a Bingo lottery. Anyone have B11?
Have been on Mir for a while and see no reason to change. Rins is probably faster on the same bike now he is healthy, but just about needs a DNF from Mir, otherwise even if he wins every remaining race he is probably too far behind.
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October 27th, 2020, 06:59 AM   #15
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With the "clear favorite" changing from week to week and the sheer number of riders still in the running for the championship, the whole thing starts to feel less than competition and more like a Bingo lottery. Anyone have B11?
As a purist of sorts, I do much prefer the justice behind success based on the entire package, i.e., the bike, the rider, and the team/engineers around the river working to extract maximum performance come each race weekend. When I see performance swings of the magnitude that we're witnessing this season, I do wonder if the bike/team aspect of the competition is being compromised or 'unjustly' taken out of the equation. Teams seem to find it difficult to build on performance from circuit to circuit.

Yes, the tyres are the same for everyone, but it does seem that there's a way too significant portion of the Michelin tyre performance from track to track and weekend to weekend that's out of the hands of the teams/engineers. They are unable to find their way and are struggling to get results, or suddenly, they 'luck' their way into performance, with the usual wild acclaim of how incredible they were. But then what of them when they're at the back next weekend?? Gone this year, is the usual story of teams improving over the season, with others 'losing' their way during the season as a result of their not improving as much or failing to improve.

What's been saving the entertainment for me is that unlike F1 2012, the riders this year still have to deliver to get their results. Nakagami is a prime example in that last race he had a podium, at the minimum, in the palm of his hand and yet, he threw it away after the first two corners.

I'm seriously enjoying the lottery since it gives riders/teams opportunities they wouldn't normally have and it's been great entertainment watching how they handle it. Some shine and capitalise, while others don't and crumble under the pressure of the opportunity. It's great watching some taking their time and managing their races, while others take off at the front, only to fade a little over half distance.
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Last edited by misfit; October 27th, 2020 at 07:01 AM.
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October 27th, 2020, 08:28 AM   #16
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I’m a purist of sorts myself. Somehow this idea of Michelin tires, as crappy as they seem to be, being the source of teams seesawing up and down in finishing order, seems far fetched to me.

I think it is rather the result of an entire crop of new riders having come to the premier class in a huge group more or less at the same time and having to deal with pressures of all kinds. Without Marquez, Lorenzo or any other former or current champion of the class on the grid, there is a void that demands to be filled. It’s just that nobody really capable has come forward yet.

I think it will take another season to see which of these guys will become challengers and which will be mid pack guys picking up some points here and there, with an occasional outing where things go their way.

Same as it ever was.
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October 27th, 2020, 10:36 AM   #17
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I’m a purist of sorts myself. Somehow this idea of Michelin tires, as crappy as they seem to be, being the source of teams seesawing up and down in finishing order, seems far fetched to me.

I think it is rather the result of an entire crop of new riders having come to the premier class in a huge group more or less at the same time and having to deal with pressures of all kinds. Without Marquez, Lorenzo or any other former or current champion of the class on the grid, there is a void that demands to be filled. It’s just that nobody really capable has come forward yet.

I think it will take another season to see which of these guys will become challengers and which will be mid pack guys picking up some points here and there, with an occasional outing where things go their way.

Same as it ever was.
I just think there is more competitive bikes than there has ever been before. There’s no longer 4 bikes that are head and shoulders above every other bike on the grid.

We were also very lucky to have Stoner, Rossi, Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Marquez at the same time. How much of their consistency (outside of Marquez and Stoner) was due to being on one of the 4 bikes. Rossi’s and Lorenzo’s results probably point to their bikes (And lack of parity) being a huge factor in their results. You could probably even consider Pedrosa’s results in his final year as further proof.
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October 27th, 2020, 12:34 PM   #18
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Ok, probably true in the twilight of the internal combustion engine. There is definitely a point at which more pure power is useless. Now it comes down to making the bike more tractable and better handling than the other team’s bike, for your rider. Even there, it seems it’s always kind of been like that: making the characteristics of your bike fit the rider(s) on your team. Perhaps all the suspension parameters have been juggled around already every which way.....or so they think. Kind of reminds me how every once in a while somebody says all the combinations of notes have been used up in music. Then along comes......something new.

Now, after Marquez, who is going to show up with something new? I mean everybody is dragging their shoulders now, aren’t they?
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October 27th, 2020, 02:28 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Bern1 View Post
I’m a purist of sorts myself. Somehow this idea of Michelin tires, as crappy as they seem to be, being the source of teams seesawing up and down in finishing order, seems far fetched to me.

I think it is rather the result of an entire crop of new riders having come to the premier class in a huge group more or less at the same time and having to deal with pressures of all kinds. Without Marquez, Lorenzo or any other former or current champion of the class on the grid, there is a void that demands to be filled. It’s just that nobody really capable has come forward yet.

I think it will take another season to see which of these guys will become challengers and which will be mid pack guys picking up some points here and there, with an occasional outing where things go their way.

Same as it ever was.
As I said before, I've witnessed the seesaw phenomenon before, i.e., in F1 2012 and after much protest on the lottery effect created by their tyre compounds and construction, Michelin changed the tyres, and although it was the same change for all the teams, a more stable and predictable championship reasserted itself. The thing is that F1 didn't have all the current variables to shift the blame/focus. All the F1 teams and drivers were unchanged. Only the tyres, so it was very clear then.

FQ and Dovi were far more stable and predictable challengers last year. Marc Marquez expressed his surprise that they haven't been more consistent. Yes, Dovi/Ducati will have their bogey weekend here and there, but I knew something was up not at all surprised when Dovi expressed his bewilderment with the current situation, a testimony I had heard before.

I think the riders on the current grid are getting the flack for shoddy and difficult Michelin rubber, while Marc, who lest we forget, crashed twice in the opening race trying to assert his usual dominance, is now enjoying the apparent legend of what the championship would have been like if he were indeed riding without injury. The benchmark is missing so Michelin gets off and the riders are without a leader which they need to lead the way to consistency.... right!!! They deserve a lot more credit than that.

I guess we will never know, will we?
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October 27th, 2020, 03:06 PM   #20
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Yes. I wish there was an objective scientific method to definitively prove Michelin's contribution to all the inconsistency.


I love having my theories confirmed.
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