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October 17th, 2020, 11:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bern1 View Post
Classic. Dovi blames Petrux for Dovi not being fast enough.
Time to hang it up dude. This year was your opportunity for a championship.
As usual......
It's a legit complaint. Having another rider in your draft slows you down. That's first day "Racing For Dummies" 101. Why do you think riders "get a tow" from riders in front of them? They get pulled in the vacuum of the draft. Basic physics tells you that if the rider behind is being pulled in the draft, (for every action there is re-action) the rider to the fore, is being slowed down.

Last edited by Keshav; October 17th, 2020 at 12:18 PM.
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October 17th, 2020, 12:37 PM   #12
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Petrucci wasn't that close. I'd say his tow was rather psychological, not physical.
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October 17th, 2020, 12:55 PM   #13
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Petrucci wasn't that close. I'd say his tow was rather psychological, not physical.
Not so. The draft from a bike easily extends back as much as three bike lengths. These are MotoGp machines, not bicycles.
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October 17th, 2020, 01:36 PM   #14
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Part of being a racer is mastering the the art of qualifying, in this case avoiding the situation Dovi says he was in. He should just have gone faster, or let Petrux by if it was a problem.

In any case, whining doesn’t look good on him. Or anybody for that matter.
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October 17th, 2020, 01:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Not so. The draft from a bike easily extends back as much as three bike lengths. These are MotoGp machines, not bicycles.
I can't say I witnessed the whole tow thing, but I never saw him that close. And if he was for a short period then it was not at high speed, thus the effect was insignificant. I maintain the tow he got was more like the rabbit tow at dog races. It works in moto racing, too!
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October 17th, 2020, 02:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Not so. The draft from a bike easily extends back as much as three bike lengths. These are MotoGp machines, not bicycles.
I watched as well, I am sure Petrux was in a position to get a tow and it benefited his lap time, cf the ridiculous spectacle in moto 3 at one stage when pretty much the whole field was dawdling around waiting to grab a tow, and the tow sign Lorenzo's pit crew Lorenzo's tow had at one time to warn him when Bautista was in the vicinity. Team-mates also sometimes deliberately give tows to help the other rider on the team.

Slowing the lead rider down not so much though I hadn't thought, most of the chagrin has always seemed to me about the following rider benefiting from the work of another, being in a position to copy the lines the lead rider is employing etc.

If Petrucci waited around to get a tow which I didn't see Dovi might have cause for complaint since the tow allowed Petrux to set a time which he may not have been capable of on his own which kept Dovi out of Q2, but of it was happenstance not so much, particularly since it was for 1 lap and qualifying is part of racing as has been said, with the larger problem being Dovi scrabbling around in Q1 in the first place.

Further evidence of the level of dysfunction in how Ducati run their motogp teams (it has mostly been thus since they entered the premier class), they have a contending rider who is not signed for next year and a second rider also not signed and hence have no leverage on either, both making no pretence about being disgruntled, saying what they like publicly, and it would seem not overly fond of each other either.
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October 17th, 2020, 03:39 PM   #17
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I still like Federer's viewpoint on matters like this. He was asked what he thinks if a match was lost due to an incorrect line call. He said the losing player was not playing well if such a trivial thing decided the match against him.
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October 17th, 2020, 03:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I still like Federer's viewpoint on matters like this. He was asked what he thinks if a match was lost due to an incorrect line call. He said the losing player was not playing well if such a trivial thing decided the match against him.
True in general but perhaps not in tennis ironically, in close matches between the big 3 a wrong call in a tie break can decide a match.
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October 17th, 2020, 05:18 PM   #19
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@michaelm

How is it possible to miss the point so completely? What are you drinking.

@Keshav

I know aerodynamics a bit and I started thinking about it. I think your thesis is fundamentally flawed. It does not take into account two bikes riding one after another will enjoy combined air drag which is less than two bikes separately. As a result the bike behind is actually making it easier for bike ahead and it may even go a tiny bit faster. Most of benefit of this shared drag goes to the bike behind indeed.
Thus, Petrucci getting close to Dovi actually helped him to go faster.
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October 17th, 2020, 05:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
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@michaelm

How is it possible to miss the point so completely? What are you drinking.

@Keshav

I know aerodynamics a bit and I started thinking about it. I think your thesis is fundamentally flawed. It does not take into account two bikes riding one after another will enjoy combined air drag which is less than two bikes separately. As a result the bike behind is actually making it easier for bike ahead and it may even go a tiny bit faster. Most of benefit of this shared drag goes to the bike behind indeed.
Thus, Petrucci getting close to Dovi actually helped him to go faster.
I had already made the point myself that it was Dovi's own problem he was dependent on a single lap in Q1, and also agree with your point about slipstreaming, as I thought I said I don't think the complaint from towers is about being slowed down by towees, my understanding about tows was the same as yours; Keshav has raced at a respectable level though, and I will bow to anyone who has raced given I haven't.

Perhaps I did miss your point, but I was making a point about tennis which I followed somewhat in the past if not so much now, and tight 5 setters between Federer, Nadal and Dokic have been decided by line calls in a tie breaker, or on one occasion against Nadal in an Australian open final when Nadal had all the momentum and a fitness/endurance advantage by a convenient injury break, something Serena Williams has done inveterately when things were going against her.

And I don't drink at 10:30 am, even on a Sunday.
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