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August 25th, 2020, 01:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Woodstock View Post
Misfit, I can’t seem to quote you, but yes you’re right. Even that doesn’t seem fair. I guess there’s no fair solution but it does seem unfair to those who were so far ahead in the first race and end up slipping right back in the second. But that’s racing, I guess! I am a fan of Nakagami so I was particularly sad for him. Hopefully he gets a podium soon, he seems to have really improved this year.
In Formula 1 back in 2012, FIM introduced new tyres that were supposed to 'spice up' the show. The fans complained that there wasn't enough overtaking (unlike in MotoGP :-D ) and that the races were too predictable. FIM wanted to create a new challenge for the teams. 'Turns out they overshot the mark even though they had more race winners than any other year in recent times as well as seriously unpredictable results. The problem was that there was the feeling that the performance pecking order from race to race wasn't earned. All the teams felt lost. If they won a race, they weren't sure why the tyres worked and if they would work at the next race. The tyres were unpredictable from day to day, between sessions and between sets of tyres. It was thought to be a lottery, the fans realised this and many were not happy. The teams weren't happy either since race results were pretty much dependent on luck of the draw with tyre performance more than anything else. Soon enough the tyre make up was revised to create more predictable behaviour although the margin of performance was narrow. The teams and drivers really had to work at dialling in the tyres to exploit that narrow window of performance.

Dovi's frustration as he shared it, reminds me of that year in F1.

Quoted from:

"For me, the situation in the championship is good, but I mean when you have that feeling and you have a lot of ups and downs, you don't have control of the situation," Dovizioso said.

"So, I don't have a good feeling in this moment because I don't feel we have the situation under control to push in some tracks.

"And every race you can have a lot of ups and downs.

"This has never happened to me and us in the last four, five years, and I'm struggling with that and I'm very disappointed about that because nobody until now from the first round is consistent and I think it's something unusual.

"So, I don't have the answer and I don't like that."

Inconsistency struck Dovizioso during the Styria weekend, as he struggled in qualifying with a "strange" feeling from the tyres, and was scrabbling for pace on the medium rear tyre in sixth before the race was red-flagged.

He was much stronger in the 12-lap restart on the soft rear tyre, but was unable to use his strength in braking because he was stuck in the lead pack.

"Well, in the first part of the race it was really bad, a really strange situation because we work a lot and we did a really very long run in the practice and everything worked very well, and I felt very good for the race," he added.

"But from the first lap the tyre didn't work in a normal way and lap by lap it became very bad.

"So, I'm pretty sure there was something [wrong], but we already spoke with Michelin, they will have to study.

"I was lucky because of the red flag, I was able to change the tyre and the soft worked in a normal way.

Last edited by misfit; August 25th, 2020 at 01:22 PM.
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August 25th, 2020, 05:51 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post
Even if the lead times were somehow maintained, it's a new race meaning the riders can change tyres and fuel levels. With the current tyres it's like Russian roulette. Dovi benefitted in that his bike came alive when it was a dud on the original set of tyres. Miller could put on a set of softs for a fresh sprint. Mir had to stay with the medium front he started with. I don't know if he had to or that he chose to.
Miller had a medium vs Mir’s soft rear in the original race so how that would have played out is uncertain as well though.

Last edited by michaelm; August 26th, 2020 at 12:47 AM.
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August 26th, 2020, 10:32 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Miller had a medium vs Mir’s soft rear in the original race so how that would have played out is uncertain as well though.
Exactly. With these tyres, it's very uncertain. The softs may have done better when under conditions that we are accustomed to, they more likely wouldn't have and Mir would have run out of grip with 7 laps remaining.
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August 29th, 2020, 07:41 AM   #34
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Ok haven't posted in ages but I always read the forum. This which I have copied and pasted is from jinx on motomatters, very interesting info about the brake ducts.

Yamaha 01 - Valentino's setup from Sunday. They have enlarged the upper "over the axle" duct but it remains a poor design. Intake ducts have a few simple rules: The inlet should be in clean airflow, the Yamaha upper has a lot of its inlet opening in the boundary layer attached to the fender/forks. By placing the inlet above the axle, for the airflow to reach it it must first negotiate a spinning tire, and the tire's relative velocity to the airflow is greater, and more disrupted, above the axle than below it. Next, all inlet ducts should be diffusers, that is they get larger in cross section as the flow moves towards the brake caliper. By making the duct divergent, we are slowing the incoming airflow, and so converting that reduced air velocity into higher pressure. And it is the higher pressure that you want, not the greater velocity. Inlet ducts also do not like sharp changes in direction or cross sectional area. In fact, they hate it, and the Iwata upper duct has both negatives in spades. For fuck sakes, Yamaha makes musical instruments. If someone designed a tuba this bad they would be fired on the spot. The good news? Rossi was also running a small under the axle inlet duct that is an absolute peach of a design. Properly located in the airflow, smoothly expanding cross section, no ackward changes in direction, and feeds a mini-plenum to maximize pressure at the cooling interface. As small as it is, I would make a serious wager that it flows 80% of what the big one does.

Yamaha 02 - Fabio's setup from yesterday. Everything as stated in Yamaha 01 but lacking the smaller under-axle duct.

Suzuki 01 - An absolutely marvelous bit of design work. Everything positive said about Vales nice little lower duct but even more so. The highly efficient design allows for a smaller inlet than most of the others. My personal favorite.

Ducati 01 -The benchmark with no discernible flaws. Solid under-axle design ending in a substantial plenum. Nice.

KTM 01 - What impresses me (and others) about KTM is the elegant design and rock-solid engineering of almost every single component on this motorcycle. Someone spent the time required on this duct, and to tip my hat to KTM management, that meant they were allowed to spend that time. A design without flaws, but could be further optimized by using Suzukis expanding duct profile.

KTM 02 - But this shows where KTM has taken a step ahead. This is far and away the best integration of the duct inlet with the other components. The basic location ensures it is in a stable high-velocity airstream, and the careful shaping of the fender and the lower fork leg also means that this area produces a higher inlet pressure.

One small niggle: Motorcycle engineers, please stop looking at supersonic military aircraft inlet ducts. Those are designed for higher Mach values and have to deal with compressible flow and shock waves. To do so they have sharp inlets. You do not have a high-performance military aircraft, you have a vehicle traveling below Mach 0.3 at sea level. Your inlets need to be radiused. Look at the forward edge (lip skin) of any modern turbofan for commercial aircraft.
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2020 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria - Austria-rbr-styria-ducts.jpg  
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August 30th, 2020, 08:15 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Segfault View Post
Hot? These carbon brakes can run so hot they glow in dark and they still keep working.
Quartararo had unexplained brake issues, the whole brake system was replaced, they couldn't figure out what was wrong. Quartararo complained the lever went soft - this happens when there is a bubble in the system. But how it got there? These brakes have been used for ages, this is not some new product which may have teething issues.
And today Vinales had to jump off the bike - no brakes.
If I was Yamaha I'd drain the fluid and analyze it thoroughly. But I believe they are doing it without me telling them ... Then again, I don't think we will ever hear if they find something wrong with it, bad PR.
Interestingly, the jump-off could have been avoided. Vinales has said in an interview, that he knew in advance he was in trouble, well before the dramatic exit-right.

"It was my fault. I didn't want to retire. I kept lapping before my brakes abandoned me. In the end there were no pads, they came off and I ended up without brakes. I should have stopped earlier. I wanted to score some points, to catch up in the standings"

Apparently there were some hard feeling in the paddock among the other riders who felt he'd caused unnecessary risk to other riders by not pitting as soon as he knew the brakes were toast.
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August 31st, 2020, 06:29 AM   #36
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The same could be said about restarting after a crash, who knows what damage has been done to the bike.
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September 1st, 2020, 03:59 PM   #37
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Why was there not a MotoGP this past sunday
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September 1st, 2020, 05:30 PM   #38
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Mandatory milk and cookies followed by a nap on the floor.
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