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August 20th, 2020, 01:47 AM   #71
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It's simple, if your name is Zarco then you cannot give gas (Pol) and you cannot brake (Morbidelli). Now we need another incident to punish Zarco also for making turns. That should cover everything, then.
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August 20th, 2020, 10:19 PM   #72
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Someone said it on crashnet of all places.

Whatever riding error/error of judgement there may have been is down to Zarco and/or Morbidelli. The threat to the welfare up to and including the lives of Rossi and Vinales is down to the track/track configuration/lack of run-off on the corner, there really shouldn’t be any threat to them from such a crash well behind them.
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August 21st, 2020, 01:14 AM   #73
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Zarco did not brake test Morbidelli. Everybody agrees on that. Rossi released video, this means he thinks it was Morbidellis fault and public opinion (and possibly stewards) needs to be "doctored". Logic tells it was Morbidelli who misjudged his own braking. Morbidelli said he was already on brakes when Zarco passed him. Come on, even considering drag from Zarco's bike the collision would have been impossible if Morbidelli was serious on brakes. More likely he saw Zarco pass, thought he himself is too hard on brakes and eased off, with intention to stay close to Zarco and attempt passing him in case Zarco leaves the door open in turn. In my armchair opinion it was Morbidelli's inexperience at speeds above 300 km/h which caused him to misjudge his braking.
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August 21st, 2020, 02:21 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Segfault View Post
Zarco did not brake test Morbidelli. Everybody agrees on that. Rossi released video, this means he thinks it was Morbidellis fault and public opinion (and possibly stewards) needs to be "doctored". Logic tells it was Morbidelli who misjudged his own braking. Morbidelli said he was already on brakes when Zarco passed him. Come on, even considering drag from Zarco's bike the collision would have been impossible if Morbidelli was serious on brakes. More likely he saw Zarco pass, thought he himself is too hard on brakes and eased off, with intention to stay close to Zarco and attempt passing him in case Zarco leaves the door open in turn. In my armchair opinion it was Morbidelli's inexperience at speeds above 300 km/h which caused him to misjudge his braking.
I'm glad that you realise it's from your armchair. Now, I recommend that you seriously consider the opinion of someone who was not in an armchair at the time. One who, based on his personality, would not be shy of admitting fault. All that Zarco can really say is that he had no bad intentions and I personally believe this as well.

https://www.autosport.com/motogp/new...-austria-crash

Of course, now that the incident has been investigated outside the heat of the moment and Zarco has been sanctioned, you will likely still be unhappy with this, and I am guessing, will give VR credit for that incident by influencing the powers that be?
https://www.autosport.com/motogp/new...rbidelli-crash

Last edited by misfit; August 21st, 2020 at 02:24 AM.
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August 21st, 2020, 03:26 AM   #75
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There is armchair, there is unhealthy influence, and there is logic. If bike B is behind bike A and bike B starts braking 20 meters earlier then there is no way it could crash into bike A. It is logic absurd. Thus, for some reason, bike B was not using full capacity of its brakes. Granted, it may be the right of bike B rider, to approach the turn too fast and run wide - happens all the time. Considering this right of rider B I'd say yes, rider A did not take into account the possibility rider B approaching the turn too fast. As a result bike B instead of running wide at turn crashed into bike A. Which teaches us one (Zarco) cannot count on other riders riding without making mistakes. BTW, I personally do not like Zarco, too snobbish for my liking. But I'd like him to stay in the business and provide us with some good entertainment by fighting for podium positions.
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August 21st, 2020, 05:10 AM   #76
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So in Brno, Pol runs wide, worries not who may be on the racing line when and crashes into Zarco. Zarco is punished, the rationale is that Pol was ever so slightly in front. Everyone but Freddie Spencer seems to disagree with the punishment.

Argentina 2015, Rossi cuts across Marquez’s line, Marquez crashes. No punishment because Rossi was in front, it’s the rider behinds responsibility because the rider in front could not know where the rider behind is on the track. Even if he did look over his shoulder.

In this incident Zarco is in front and runs wide, telemetry proves he did not brake check Morbidelli. Morbidelli runs right into the back off Zarco, setting of a series of chain reactions that could’ve resulted in a much worse outcome. This time Zarco is punished, the rationale seeming to be that he ran wide after passing and Morbidelli didn’t have anywhere to go and Zarco should have know exactly where he was.

It is obvious to anyone with a brain that Rossi has used his influence within the media to make sure Morbidelli bares no blame and Zarco is punished. Has Rossi effectively employed this strategy before? If he has then maybe it is worth considering.

Has an incident like this ever caused a meeting to decide outcomes and punishments days after the crash?
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August 21st, 2020, 07:15 AM   #77
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These Dorna kangaroo courts are getting more and more preposterous.

I don’t have a dog in the hunt here but I just watched the replays. Although it appears true that Zarco is slightly wide coming out of the fast lefthander, it’s logical if he just passed Morbidelli. I can’t believe he would brake check Morbidelli there. (Telemetry says he didn’t.) He is marginally ahead of Morbidelli, so it would behoove Franco to not push the issue. Did Zarco close the line too soon back to the left? He has to at some point, especially if he is wide. If he’s in front, that’s his choice. How much in front was he becomes the question. Morbidelli looks like he is wide too and looks like he has target fixation of the back of Zarco’s bike.

Really hard to tell from the armchair of course.

It’s a racing incident. These half cocked Dorna penalties that result from knee jerk reactions on the part of armchair warriors with access to multiple camera angles (not all), paddock political agendas and days of negotiation are some weird modern version of dispensing politically correct “justice” that has no place in this sport.
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August 21st, 2020, 07:34 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p4p1 View Post
So in Brno, Pol runs wide, worries not who may be on the racing line when and crashes into Zarco. Zarco is punished, the rationale is that Pol was ever so slightly in front. Everyone but Freddie Spencer seems to disagree with the punishment.

Argentina 2015, Rossi cuts across Marquez’s line, Marquez crashes. No punishment because Rossi was in front, it’s the rider behinds responsibility because the rider in front could not know where the rider behind is on the track. Even if he did look over his shoulder.

In this incident Zarco is in front and runs wide, telemetry proves he did not brake check Morbidelli. Morbidelli runs right into the back off Zarco, setting of a series of chain reactions that could’ve resulted in a much worse outcome. This time Zarco is punished, the rationale seeming to be that he ran wide after passing and Morbidelli didn’t have anywhere to go and Zarco should have know exactly where he was.

It is obvious to anyone with a brain that Rossi has used his influence within the media to make sure Morbidelli bares no blame and Zarco is punished. Has Rossi effectively employed this strategy before? If he has then maybe it is worth considering.

Has an incident like this ever caused a meeting to decide outcomes and punishments days after the crash?
At least this was a dangerous high speed crash, although the threat to Vinales and Rossi seconds ahead was down to the track design imo as I have said.

The problem for me is the incident 2 or 3 years ago when Rossi pretty much wanted MM banned for life as a threat to all humanity when it ended in him basically putting his bike down at a very slow speed off track after a collision he could have easily avoided himself. Sure he theoretically had the right to the line and MM could have waited till the next corner, but MM had caught up 4 seconds in a few laps and like Argentina 2015 in the reverse case any fight for position by Rossi was purely token and likely to have lasted one more corner.
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August 21st, 2020, 08:14 AM   #79
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Quote:
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paddock political agendas and days of negotiation are some weird modern version of dispensing politically correct “justice” that has no place in this sport.
Political correctness is harmful everywhere, and yes, I drew the same parallel in my mind. This nanny state ideology is getting everywhere and is putting brakes to normal progress of society. And then they wonder why/how Russia and China are gaining power - they do not have this PC b/s to hold them back. (Sorry for being off topic.)
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August 21st, 2020, 08:16 AM   #80
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As far as armchair experts go, well Ago seems to agree with the assessment that Zarco should have nothing to ask for and even asks the question if Spencer believes he wouldn’t have gone for the gap. So while a hypocritical 9x world champion who has a dog in the fight may want Zarco punished, a 15x world champion who has proven time and time again that his POV is worth listening to and refuses to get drawn into paddock politics has stated STRONG support for Zarco.
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