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August 17th, 2020, 02:13 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post
What I find interesting is that with MM and Rossi, there's invariably a way out of their aggressive antics with other riders. As a result, there is usually a rider complaining afterwards, rather than breathing a sigh of relief after a huge crash. JLo or Stoner may have had their moments where they comment on VRs aggression or feeling that he crossed the line, but I don't recall them claiming him dangerous.
As I recall in his entire very long career Rossi has been involved in exactly one incident which caused an injury of any consequence to another rider, a broken leg I think, but I can’t even recall when It occurred and who it was. That can’t be coincidence as you say. Stoner did complain, and was pilloried for doing so, about Laguna Seca 2008, saying more or less that Rossi had an advantage because he basically knew Stoner would elect not to crash into him and would also manage to not do so. I thought he had a point, and it is perhaps one of the reasons why VR has 7 titles and Stoner 2, but no way does Rossi pull the Laguna Seca 2008 moves or the Jerez 2005 move on Gibernau if Elias is the other party. Stoner was also none too happy about Jerez 2010, although the risk there was to Stoner’s race and title hopes, and to Rossi’s own health if Stoner had not been able to avoid running over him. Rossi is a hypocrite imo for complaining about MM in the premier class at least, and for complaining about other riders including Elias.

With the current incident I agree at such a dangerous place on the track and such a dangerous speed Zarco has to be very sure about making the pass cleanly, and perhaps should not have attempted the pass there at all, particularly if Morbidelli had no bail out option. If Morbidelli was trying to re-pass I guess his judgement comes into question on the same grounds, position on the track and speed. I was watching live as well, and Crafar’s immediate question was whether the incident was the tail end of a passing manoeuvre.
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Last edited by michaelm; August 18th, 2020 at 03:24 AM.
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August 17th, 2020, 02:27 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Having to watch people beat a dead horse is an occupational hazard on this forum.
It is not exactly a dead horse in the context of Rossi again complaining about another rider’s behaviour, with the potential this brings for the rider concerned to be ostracised/vilified by his fanbase as history records for several rivals of Rossi’s as raised by p4p1, although I take Misfit’s point about the extreme danger involved with this incident and possible lack of a bailout option compared to most if not all incidents in which Rossi has been involved.
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August 17th, 2020, 02:39 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
That FP incident is probably the worst in MotoGP history. Pure recklessness and disregard for safety.
A totally indefensible incident for which he should have received a much more severe penalty, and for which his crew should have been sanctioned for sending him out in the circumstance. As I implied and misfit said, he isn’t reckless about the safety of other riders now and largely hasn’t been as a premier class rider, with you needing to go back to an incident in FP in the moto 2 class 10 years ago when he was 17 odd.
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August 17th, 2020, 05:47 PM   #54
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You have got to love this forum, it never fails to deliver.

Rossi avoids death by 1/100 of a second caused by an innocent he had no involvement in = Rossi is a massive cunt.

That's pretty awesome!
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August 17th, 2020, 06:30 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
It is not exactly a dead horse in the context of Rossi again complaining about another rider’s behaviour, with the potential this brings for the rider concerned to be ostracised/vilified by his fanbase as history records for several rivals of Rossi’s as raised by p4p1, although I take Misfit’s point about the extreme danger involved with this incident and possible lack of a bailout option compared to most if not all incidents in which Rossi has been involved.
I get that. It's just that I think we're looking at a whole new generation of fans, and a new generation of riders, who've moved on as well. As Rossi's power as a rider is fading, so is his influence. Cult of personality fans are fickle as hell. They may not admit it, but the Rossifumi are looking for the next big thing, the big persona in whose glow they can bask. And the newer riders still respect him, but they see him being beaten at every race by kids their own age, and they're lining up for their turn to do the same. If Rossi bad-mouths them, it will be a largely impotent gesture.
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August 17th, 2020, 06:38 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Macca View Post
You have got to love this forum, it never fails to deliver.

Rossi avoids death by 1/100 of a second caused by an innocent he had no involvement in = Rossi is a massive cunt.

That's pretty awesome!
Assuming, and I'm not saying one way or the other, but just for the sake of argument, that it's a wildly accepted and universal truth that Rossi is a cunt, that fact would not be ameliorated by virtue of his good fortune in not being struck by flying pile of wreckage. It would just mean he's a lucky cunt.
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August 17th, 2020, 06:48 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca View Post
You have got to love this forum, it never fails to deliver.

Rossi avoids death by 1/100 of a second caused by an innocent he had no involvement in = Rossi is a massive cunt.

That's pretty awesome!
Bike flies over Vinales’ head and he doesn’t make a cunt of himself. Rossi on the other hand who thankfully wasn’t hurt.....
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August 17th, 2020, 11:42 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Little Walter View Post
Assuming, and I'm not saying one way or the other, but just for the sake of argument, that it's a wildly accepted and universal truth that Rossi is a cunt, that fact would not be ameliorated by virtue of his good fortune in not being struck by flying pile of wreckage. It would just mean he's a lucky cunt.
I am hardly Rossi‘s biggest fan, but I think he is entitled to a gripe in this instance, particularly since his gripe correctly imo partly concerned the intrinsic danger of the corner, and he did also show balls of adamantium/titanium/whatever to go back out and ride a competitive race after the re-start. I struggle to think of an incident precipitated by him as potentially dangerous as this one in his career, which doesn’t apply to riders I favour far more than him including MM and even Stoner, the latter learning from the pile up due to his riding error in 2006 however. I am leaning to the view it was too dangerous to make the pass Zarco made at that point on the track, definitely so if Morbidelli had no bail out option. If he was trying an immediate re-pass at an even later point then Morbidelli also made a contributory error of judgement however imo, I am not sure Zarco was in a position to take any alternative line.

In general though Rossi, and MM, seem to be of the view that rules are for other people, and have taken advantage of the propensity of other more principled riders not to wish to be involved in collisions. Rossi complains about hard moves by others which MM basically doesn’t though. I would love to have seen Rossi attempt some of his admittedly rare more controversial moves on the likes of Mick Doohan rather than Gibernau or Stoner.

Last edited by michaelm; August 18th, 2020 at 03:01 AM.
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August 18th, 2020, 02:09 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by p4p1 View Post
Bike flies over Vinales’ head and he doesn’t make a cunt of himself. Rossi on the other hand who thankfully wasn’t hurt.....
VR is a 7 time champ with a long career and experience. MV isn't. One has a driver academy with one of his graduates involved in a huge shunt that miraculously left no one seriously injured or dead. He is currently instructing/advising upcoming riders. This makes him very different from MV. He will feel inclined to comment on a lot of issues and the press will understandably approach him for his opinion as they now do with Dovi. I am not at all surprised Rossi had something to say about it and would have been disappointed actually, if he didn't. Some riders, and dare I say, most, will likely choose to be neutral about it knowing the potential consequence of not doing so. IOW's, they would rather not get publicly involved since it often then becomes political. Rossi will not, since he's in a position not to be and has experience with dealing with the consequence of taking an unpopular position. We have read Morbidelli's take on what happened.

VR repeatedly says he has no problem with aggressive riding and not surprisingly so since he himself is well known for his aggressive tactics. However, he speaks of a line, that if crossed, will lead to serious danger to other riders. So I understand him fully in that there should be respect for the safety and lives of the other riders while this doesn't negate aggression completely.

You see exactly what Rossi refers to when JLo engages Rossi and especially MM on track. JLo becomes distinctly more aggressive in his riding since if he doesn't, he will not win. However, like VR and MM, he's aware of where the line is and where his aggression inappropriately placed can lead to shunts with serious consequences. Aggression that is not only tempered by awareness but also skill. As we've seen over the years and are witnessing now, there is the occasional rider who's bravery isn't tamed by this awareness and his skill.
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August 18th, 2020, 02:16 AM   #60
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Mike, That’s the difference to me with Rossi and Marquez, Marquez doesn’t complain when others make hard passes on him. But we must also go back to where it started to be accepted that contact was part of racing. It wasn’t so long ago Rossi himself was calling Stoner and co soft for complaining about Simoncelli. He made plenty of passes that if they were done to him he would and has complained. He also defended Petrucci after one of the Espargaró brothers complained that he constantly makes contact, when Rossi was doing his best to get Marquez ejected from the sport after Argentina.

I don’t care that Rossi is ruthless, just like I don’t care that Marquez does. It’s a problem when you can’t take what you give. I’m sure if the sport was as close as it is now with spec tyres and so much parity between factories Rossi would have made even more questionable moves when he was younger. He destroyed Nakagamis season last year but isn’t it funny we never heard all that much about it?
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