MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

MotoGP MotoGP Forum - MotoGP Class Motorcycle Racing Forum


Like Tree68Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
August 17th, 2020, 08:37 AM   #41
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2016
From: UK

Posts: 112
Likes: 89

Quote:
Originally Posted by p4p1 View Post
I’m just going to put it here. But engine wise how fucked are Yamaha? The engines are homologated for next season as well. Does this mean that if Yamaha has made a serious error in their engine design they still have to use the exact same design and components for next year?
They've got a request open with the MSMA to allow them to replace the valves on their current engines.
This request will be allowed if Yamaha can prove that it's on the grounds of safety and not performance.

Ducati are ok with it (if you remember, Yamaha didn't oppose the Ducati rear wheel scoop when It first appeared - Ducati assist to be returning the favour)

Honda wants proof that it's for safety...

Last edited by Macca; August 17th, 2020 at 09:25 AM.
Macca is offline  
 
August 17th, 2020, 10:22 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2019
From: Wales, UK

Posts: 183
Likes: 81

I Ride: A bicycle. Heehee
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
(EDIT Rossi also questioned the safety of the corner as Simon Crafar did in the race telecast, and as Casey Stoner apparently did in 2016 as was previously posted. I have come to your point of view, although not intentionally reckless I am sure, Zarco has just been involved in too many of these incidents and his judgement/racecraft does come into question, as does Pol's for that matter for making the same error 2 weeks in a row. I do think MM is not as reckless as he was in regard to the safety of other riders if not his own safety, and I do think Rossi's attack on him a couple of years ago was unjustified).
I do think that a distinction needs to be made between being aggressive, being dangerous and finally, being aggressive and dangerous. There has to be a reason why VR and MM for that matter, in all their years, have been involved in little or no spectacular crashes that an aggressive move on their part has created. They may punt, block pass, etc. However, they are both very skilled and know where to take the fight to the absolute limit. They each seem to have a sense of when it's OK to go for it, knowing that if it fails it will not lead to too much of an incident. I don't think this sort of thing is simply down to luck... not after so many years of riding at the bleeding edge.

In contrast, check out Zarco's incident record. Espargaro senior's sentiment reflects mine.... "It's very, very difficult. But on the other hands, it's always Zarco, it's always Zarco [involved in incidents]."
misfit is offline  
August 17th, 2020, 10:29 AM   #43
Senior Member
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2019
From: Wales, UK

Posts: 183
Likes: 81

I Ride: A bicycle. Heehee
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
My view and the view of Crafar, Stoner etc is that the speed differential is too great going into that corner.

Rossi probably did brake check MM at Argentina 2015, and Stoner when he put his bike down rather than plough into a Rossi which would have been in his interests at Laguna Seca 2008, to say nothing of Jerez 2010 or the famed Corkscrew incident itself where it was entirely in Stoner’s hands that he didn’t get T-boned at a fairly high speed after what was pretty much a lose after going into a corner too hot
What I find interesting is that with MM and Rossi, there's invariably a way out of their aggressive antics with other riders. As a result, there is usually a rider complaining afterwards, rather than breathing a sigh of relief after a huge crash. JLo or Stoner may have had their moments where they comment on VRs aggression or feeling that he crossed the line, but I don't recall them claiming him dangerous.
misfit is offline  
August 17th, 2020, 10:48 AM   #44
Senior Member
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2019
From: Wales, UK

Posts: 183
Likes: 81

I Ride: A bicycle. Heehee
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4p1 View Post
Would you say that Zarco made a dangerous move? Take the speed out of it... Is the situation any different to Argentina 2015 when the rider in front took a line that the rider behind wasn't expecting? I thought it was the riders behind responsibility? Or does that only count if Rossi is in front and he or one of his protoge is behind?
a) Technically, one could argue he did not. However, one could also argue that the risk was there and perhaps there was room for leaving the move for safer circumstances. We are now realising how many of the riders have commented about the danger on that part of the track.

b) We cannot and should not take the speed from it when comparing with other incidents. The speed had everything to do with the huge crash that occurred.

So the comparison falls flat IMO, and this is likely why the incident you're comparing it to didn't lead to a spectacular crash and this is the blind spot with Zarco to which I refer and argue. What's with all the awkward incidents over his relatively short MotoGP career?

You may ask what incidents I refer to, and I feel a bit motivated to look into them to better support my opinion, but it would take too much time and effort. I have felt this way about him a long time ago. The only difference is that initially, I thought him careless and not really taking due care with his fellow riders. Now, I think he genuinely lacks that extra awareness on the bleeding edge of speed and while fighting with the other riders. That extra element of judgement that goes with his ambition during fights to move up the field during a race. He's very brave and very daring.... above average on the grid, I think, but if he's going to be like that, he needs that extra awareness.

MM is a great example of a rider that can carve his way through his fellow riders without causing a major incident. A few may complain about his aggression.... but there's typically no incident. Note that I didn't say "never an incident", just typically no incidents, i.e., big crashes.
misfit is offline  
August 17th, 2020, 11:48 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
moto vudu's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2015
From: Texas

Posts: 1,819
Likes: 769

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
a) Technically, one could argue he did not. However, one could also argue that the risk was there and perhaps there was room for leaving the move for safer circumstances. We are now realising how many of the riders have commented about the danger on that part of the track.

b) We cannot and should not take the speed from it when comparing with other incidents. The speed had everything to do with the huge crash that occurred.

So the comparison falls flat IMO, and this is likely why the incident you're comparing it to didn't lead to a spectacular crash and this is the blind spot with Zarco to which I refer and argue. What's with all the awkward incidents over his relatively short MotoGP career?

You may ask what incidents I refer to, and I feel a bit motivated to look into them to better support my opinion, but it would take too much time and effort. I have felt this way about him a long time ago. The only difference is that initially, I thought him careless and not really taking due care with his fellow riders. Now, I think he genuinely lacks that extra awareness on the bleeding edge of speed and while fighting with the other riders. That extra element of judgement that goes with his ambition during fights to move up the field during a race. He's very brave and very daring.... above average on the grid, I think, but if he's going to be like that, he needs that extra awareness.

MM is a great example of a rider that can carve his way through his fellow riders without causing a major incident. A few may complain about his aggression.... but there's typically no incident. Note that I didn't say "never an incident", just typically no incidents, i.e., big crashes.
moto vudu is offline  
August 17th, 2020, 11:53 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2019
From: Wales, UK

Posts: 183
Likes: 81

I Ride: A bicycle. Heehee
Moto vudu,

You make my point having to find an incident in a FP session. You also need to highlight the entire sentence and read it again. :-)
misfit is offline  
August 17th, 2020, 12:25 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
moto vudu's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2015
From: Texas

Posts: 1,819
Likes: 769

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
Moto vudu,

You make my point having to find an incident in a FP session. You also need to highlight the entire sentence and read it again. :-)
That FP incident is probably the worst in MotoGP history. Pure recklessness and disregard for safety.
MigsAngel and paparazzo like this.
moto vudu is offline  
August 17th, 2020, 12:57 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
Hollywood's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
From: USA

Posts: 650
Likes: 218

you could make the argument that in this era of GP racing with the bikes being so close to each other in performance, a tenth of a second could separate the top 10, and the power of the bikes makes it very easy to destroy tires especially when off the line and or attempting a pass... all this means more riders taking more chances.
Hollywood is offline  
August 17th, 2020, 01:04 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2019
From: Wales, UK

Posts: 183
Likes: 81

I Ride: A bicycle. Heehee
Quote:
Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
That FP incident is probably the worst in MotoGP history. Pure recklessness and disregard for safety.
You don't seem to like MM and p4p1 doesn't seem to like VR. I get it. I got it a long time ago.
misfit is offline  
August 17th, 2020, 01:39 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Keshav's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
From: Nu Yawk City

Posts: 10,126
Likes: 1715

I Ride: Triiumph Tiger XCx 800 + KTM SXF450sm + 511SMR
Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
You don't seem to like MM and p4p1 doesn't seem to like VR. I get it. I got it a long time ago.
Having to watch people beat a dead horse is an occupational hazard on this forum.
MigsAngel and misfit like this.
Keshav is offline  
Reply

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

Tags
2020, grand, motorrad, myworld, prix, von, Österreich



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2019 - Austrian - myWorld Motorrad Grand Prix von Österreich AJV80 MotoGP 64 August 15th, 2019 06:28 AM
eyetime Motorrad Grand Prix von Österreich 2018. Predictions & discussion. Deefer Dogg MotoGP 224 August 25th, 2018 04:44 AM
NeroGiardini Motorrad Grand Prix von Trapp Austria 2017 MdubSTYLIE MotoGP 144 August 30th, 2017 02:31 PM
GoPro Motorrad Grand Prix Deutschland MdubSTYLIE MotoGP 772 July 25th, 2017 09:50 AM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2020 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.