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August 10th, 2020, 03:20 AM   #1
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Random Thoughts for 2020

Just a thread for random thoughts or ideas/topics that probably don't require their own thread.

Jorge Lorenzo - Coincidence or not, it seems the bike he is on/developing becomes the best bike on the grid. Yamaha was equal best or the best bike until his departure in 2016. Ducati had the best bike on the grid during the 17/18 seasons. In 2019 he really didn't get into a groove so I won't hold that against him but now that he is back testing with Yamaha they seem to have pulled ahead of Ducati at this stage. Ducati and Yamaha were IMO neck and neck bike wise last year. Rider inconsistency rather than bike inconsistency was the problem.

KTM - Could be start being able to consistently challenge for wins and podiums. We are only 3 races in but they are showing very positive signs outside of their amazing win this week. Their strategy in the feeder classes looks like it will pay big dividends. However.....

Binder and Oliveira - while both IMO look like they're very talented they are both 25. At that age Lorenzo was on his way to winning his second GP title, Marquez and Rossi were both multiple times world champs, Stoner was a world champ and winning on a bike that no one else could put on the podium and Pedrosa was collecting runners up medals for fun. I don't know if the age aspect is super relevant or not but I would consider that the room for improvement for a 25 year old can't be as good as a guy in his early 20s. The commators were banging on about the maturity Binder showed to keep the bike upright etc and running consistent times while he is out in front but he is 25. He should have that maturity. It doesn't mean it wasn't an outstanding first win and a very impressive ride.

The Championship race
Marquez maybe should still be the favourite. It's a shortened season and he is starting at a 60 point deficit with 10 or 11 races to go but his consistency has been miraculous over the 3 seasons. *Not* that I am betting on this happening but lets say Marquez comes back in the form he left in despite the injury next week and wins. Fabio has another weekend similar to the one he just had Ducati and KTM do well at a circuit they probably should Marquez can easily make up 15 points on Fabio in the one race, if there is a similar repeat the next weekend at Austria that 60 points quickly becomes 30. I doubt that all of those things happen next week let alone. But I'm trying to show how quickly an excellent looking lead can evaporate.

Which brings me to a crash for Quartraro. I don't think its ridiculous to say he likely will crash during a race this year. Everyone probably will. If it's on a weekend that is not going great anyway then he might kind of get away with it however if it is in a situation similar to Vinales at PI last year when trying to beat Marquez it's a disaster. Having said that Marquez needs to keep it upright for the rest of the year as well. Something he has never managed to do.

Yamaha - All riders are reportedly on their last or second last engines. Whether that is a bit of hyperbole and the engines are just being swapped out faster than expected but should operate fine when put back into the bikes I don't know. But this could fuck Fabio in the ass if there is real engine problems. If the wick has to be turned down to keep the engines running then it hurts him hugely in Austria and maybe just as much or almost as much in the remaining tracks. I'd mention the other riders but Vinales and Rossi ARE NOT championship threats. Rossi because he isn't fast enough, Maverick because he is just so inconsistent. A start from pitlane, an engine going bang all of which could happen more than once sadly for Fabio could destroy his chance at the 2020 title.

The decline of Dovi - I'm not MotoGP rider so I don't know but Dovi's greatest strength during his championship challenges was slowing the race down and managing tyres. It was never outright speed, which he did occasionally have. My question is if we assume that Michelin tyres have steadily been improving since 2016 has been a factor in Dovi getting further away from Marquez in the championship with each new season since 2017? His wins were always on a track that seemed to strongly favour himself and/or Ducati. When it didn't he was nowhere near the lead. I don't remember a dominant dry victory from Dovi.

Everyone has to fall over almost consistently for Vinales to ever win a title.

Rossi is doing well but he is still the last Yamaha. It's still early days so it could change but Morbidelli is the only Yamaha rider he could beat without catastrophic bike failures or injuries.
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August 10th, 2020, 05:14 AM   #2
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Thanks for sharing your views.

Lorenzo, like Pedrosa, I agree, likely influenced bike development in a positive way, wherever they were. I doubt they could have done it without the input of their teammates as well. It's a team sport and if things go south with the departure of Lorenzo, this doesn't mean that he was carrying development. Team fortunes fluctuate.

KTM seem to have a great bike this year. Pol is going quickly on it as well, so although Binder did a fantastic race to win, it's clearly evident from Pol's performance before he crashed, that the KTM has the performance in it. It should be interesting to see if Binder and KTM are able to extract the same performance from track to track. Of course, this is relative to the other teams which seemed to be stunningly nowhere this last weekend. I've never seen anything like it.

In general, I agree with your sentiments on Dovi. He's a great racer, but I never really saw him as one with raw pace both for qualifying and the race. It's frustrating and unsurprising what's happening with him now. I really like him, but you know.... frustrating to watch. Dovi will be Dovi and I think his time is now over and he had his moment of shining.

Binder has that racing aggression that Quartararo lacks. I'm so happy to see Binder in the mix since like MM, I find him exciting to watch and seriously relish a dog fight between him and Marquez.

I don't know what the heck is happening at Yamaha. Vinales is seriously inconsistent in pace. The same for Rossi, to be fair. It's one thing for Vinales to not be as skilled at overtaking as other riders, but he should have the pace. He was nowhere in the race, and this is too often the unfortunate situation for him.

Zarco - I'm trying to figure him out. He's clearly a very skilled rider once he has a bike that allows him to express himself. However, he has been involved in way too many questionable on-track incidents where he claims innocence. I do feel that he doesn't ride defensively enough which is an on-track responsibility as any. In such instances, there'll be no one to really blame from a clear standpoint to allow for sanction. However, the incidents will continue, I'm sure since there is no insight.
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August 10th, 2020, 02:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p4p1 View Post
Just a thread for random thoughts or ideas/topics that probably don't require their own thread.

Jorge Lorenzo - Coincidence or not, it seems the bike he is on/developing becomes the best bike on the grid. Yamaha was equal best or the best bike until his departure in 2016. Ducati had the best bike on the grid during the 17/18 seasons. In 2019 he really didn't get into a groove so I won't hold that against him but now that he is back testing with Yamaha they seem to have pulled ahead of Ducati at this stage. Ducati and Yamaha were IMO neck and neck bike wise last year. Rider inconsistency rather than bike inconsistency was the problem.

KTM - Could be start being able to consistently challenge for wins and podiums. We are only 3 races in but they are showing very positive signs outside of their amazing win this week. Their strategy in the feeder classes looks like it will pay big dividends. However.....

Binder and Oliveira - while both IMO look like they're very talented they are both 25. At that age Lorenzo was on his way to winning his second GP title, Marquez and Rossi were both multiple times world champs, Stoner was a world champ and winning on a bike that no one else could put on the podium and Pedrosa was collecting runners up medals for fun. I don't know if the age aspect is super relevant or not but I would consider that the room for improvement for a 25 year old can't be as good as a guy in his early 20s. The commators were banging on about the maturity Binder showed to keep the bike upright etc and running consistent times while he is out in front but he is 25. He should have that maturity. It doesn't mean it wasn't an outstanding first win and a very impressive ride.

The Championship race
Marquez maybe should still be the favourite. It's a shortened season and he is starting at a 60 point deficit with 10 or 11 races to go but his consistency has been miraculous over the 3 seasons. *Not* that I am betting on this happening but lets say Marquez comes back in the form he left in despite the injury next week and wins. Fabio has another weekend similar to the one he just had Ducati and KTM do well at a circuit they probably should Marquez can easily make up 15 points on Fabio in the one race, if there is a similar repeat the next weekend at Austria that 60 points quickly becomes 30. I doubt that all of those things happen next week let alone. But I'm trying to show how quickly an excellent looking lead can evaporate.

Which brings me to a crash for Quartraro. I don't think its ridiculous to say he likely will crash during a race this year. Everyone probably will. If it's on a weekend that is not going great anyway then he might kind of get away with it however if it is in a situation similar to Vinales at PI last year when trying to beat Marquez it's a disaster. Having said that Marquez needs to keep it upright for the rest of the year as well. Something he has never managed to do.

Yamaha - All riders are reportedly on their last or second last engines. Whether that is a bit of hyperbole and the engines are just being swapped out faster than expected but should operate fine when put back into the bikes I don't know. But this could fuck Fabio in the ass if there is real engine problems. If the wick has to be turned down to keep the engines running then it hurts him hugely in Austria and maybe just as much or almost as much in the remaining tracks. I'd mention the other riders but Vinales and Rossi ARE NOT championship threats. Rossi because he isn't fast enough, Maverick because he is just so inconsistent. A start from pitlane, an engine going bang all of which could happen more than once sadly for Fabio could destroy his chance at the 2020 title.

The decline of Dovi - I'm not MotoGP rider so I don't know but Dovi's greatest strength during his championship challenges was slowing the race down and managing tyres. It was never outright speed, which he did occasionally have. My question is if we assume that Michelin tyres have steadily been improving since 2016 has been a factor in Dovi getting further away from Marquez in the championship with each new season since 2017? His wins were always on a track that seemed to strongly favour himself and/or Ducati. When it didn't he was nowhere near the lead. I don't remember a dominant dry victory from Dovi.

Everyone has to fall over almost consistently for Vinales to ever win a title.

Rossi is doing well but he is still the last Yamaha. It's still early days so it could change but Morbidelli is the only Yamaha rider he could beat without catastrophic bike failures or injuries.
For me the Zarco Pol thing was a little like the Rossi vs MM thing 2 or 3 years ago for which MM was also sanctioned. Rossi in that case had the right to the line but perhaps enforcing it was a bit pointless given MM was much faster and had just caught up 4 seconds on him in a few laps. With Pol if you actually make a mistake and go off the racing line I am not sure you keep the right to the line, and to me he was concerned about Binder getting away to take KTM’s first win instead of him, riding raggedly, and not concentrating on the corner concerned.in regard to which he was the rider with more ability to take evasive action.
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August 10th, 2020, 04:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
to me he was concerned about Binder getting away to take KTMís first win instead of him, riding raggedly, and not concentrating on the corner concerned.in regard to which he was the rider with more ability to take evasive action.
I does appear a likely possibility there was an element of that feeling affecting his riding.
Very understandable after that time as lead rider for them and all of the positive affirmation he has received for his efforts.
Not number 1 rider anymore you would expect.
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August 14th, 2020, 04:05 PM   #5
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Random thoughts for 2018: Ducati must sign with Lorenzo, Dovi must be fired!

Random thoughts for 2019: Ducati must sign with Lorenzo, Dovi must be fired!

Random thoughts for 2020: Ducati must sign with Lorenzo, Dovi must be fired!

Random thoughts for 2021: Ducati must sign with Lorenzo, Dovi must be fired!

Random thoughts for 2022: Ducati must sign with Lorenzo, Dovi must be fired!
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August 15th, 2020, 03:05 AM   #6
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Haven't seen this elsewhere yet.
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/94...ew-ducati-2021
Not good.
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August 15th, 2020, 05:36 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
Haven't seen this elsewhere yet.
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/94...ew-ducati-2021
Not good.
That's awesome news!!

I hope Lorenzo get onboard!
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August 15th, 2020, 05:40 AM   #8
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He's had a great career. I'd miss him, but not morn him. Seems evident that his relationship with Ducati is not fulfilling. I'm sure he'll find a good way to share his knowledge and experience in racing in a meaningful way.
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August 15th, 2020, 06:16 AM   #9
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Well, it seems one could see that coming. Ducati needs to actually win something and the problem can’t be the bike itself now, can it?

As much as I like and respect Lorenzo, I’m not sure that is the best place for him to go. Personally I hope he stays retired.
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August 15th, 2020, 07:02 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bern1 View Post
Well, it seems one could see that coming. Ducati needs to actually win something and the problem can’t be the bike itself now, can it?

As much as I like and respect Lorenzo, I’m not sure that is the best place for him to go. Personally I hope he stays retired.
Sad for Dovi. but if it his decision the more power to him.

Great news for Pecco and Zarco.

JLo, the guy that quit because he was afraid of riding the Honda, and the guy that took a year to learn to ride the Ducati.....that is big step backward for Ducati if they go in that direction.

Duke need to look at new talent to bring into their satelite teams, and bump up their already good satellite riders.....

They should make the HRC mistake of putting their eggs in one basket by signing a quitter like JLo.

Accrodinng to BBC Sport's N.Hodgson - JLO started the rumour he was going join Ducati....and Ducati have laughed, laughed, at the suggestion they woudl take him back....

Last edited by MigsAngel; August 15th, 2020 at 08:47 AM.
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