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August 9th, 2020, 11:11 AM   #21
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"I was surprised that everyone has said that I have drawn it perfectly. I expected to lose positions and it is true that no one overtook me. It's the first time I've done that line and I felt comfortable. Maybe it's because of my experience with the Ducati Multistrada with which I usually move around the street ”.

LoL, and still make some merchan for Ducati.

Zarco is a fighter.
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August 9th, 2020, 12:17 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by gui22a View Post
Are you sure you watch MotoGP? Ah, yeah, the guy that another day also said Dovi had won more races than Dani Pedrosa... another shame. Ok, let's go!


Together with MM on track:

Dovi wins (since 2016, his first victory with Duc): 13 times.

Lorenzo wins (since 2013, the debut year for MM where he got champion already): 24 times (7 times in 2015 alone. 3 times beat both MM and Dovi, the former on the same bike).

Also, Lorenzo beat MM on the title race, becoming world champion, something much bigger than winning isolated races here and there but never getting the title, like Dovi (win a race, the next gets 11th.. what a great rider...). Also, Lorenzo managed to beat MM on two completely different machines.

The fact that you have an weak memory doesn't mean Dovizioso was, once upon a time, excluding MM, the best of the rest. In any case, you could have done a quick search on google before saying bullcrap.

Honda managed to hire Lorenzo because he was growing a big threat for them riding the Ducati. Honda isn't fool.
Read again, I said who has beaten Marquez more times than Dovi. Maybe I should be more specific. I don't count races where Marquez beat himself by crashing. I'm talking about head-to-head duels. I realize that's moving the goalposts, but really, what's pertinent, or germaine, is that riders who have beaten the freakishly talented Marquez in a head-to-head battle are by definition a very elite group. I don't use the term alien because it's a sophomoric and dated term/concept. There is no real consensus as to what constitutes being an "alien".

As to Honda not being the fool, uhhh....how many races did Lorenzo win for them?

And BTW - for years I've been saying Honda is foolish to put all their eggs in one basket by not making a more rider friendly bike. The stupidity of this way of doing things is only surpassed by the hiring of Alex as his teammate.
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Last edited by Keshav; August 9th, 2020 at 02:23 PM.
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August 9th, 2020, 01:37 PM   #23
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As to the "Dovi was never an alien" nonsense, puhhleeeze. He's old and he's burned out - but show me another rider who's beaten Marquez more times than Dovi.
Thought that also.
Well planned and executed passes against someone extremely difficult to do so.
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August 9th, 2020, 02:34 PM   #24
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Thought that also.
Well planned and executed passes against someone extremely difficult to do so.
Great passes, great strategy involved, using the strengths of his bike and exploiting the weaknesses of MM’s. Depends what floats your boat, and as racing fans for most it is passes like those ones, but Jorge did flat out beat MM just by being faster on a number of occasions, despite an internal team conflict with a team-mate at Yamaha with different preferences in regard to the bike and tires, and in my view capricious tire changes which worked against him as well.

For JL fans, among whom Gigi seemed to number, it looks currently very much like those wins by Dovi were on Jorge’s bike, and that him strong arming Ducati into his current contract and the ditching of Jorge were the wrong moves by Ducati, although understandable at the time.
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Last edited by michaelm; August 10th, 2020 at 12:45 AM.
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August 9th, 2020, 02:43 PM   #25
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Sure don't disagree Jorge is the better rider and it would appear could develop a bike to suit his style but could also modify his strengths as he did on the duke.

Those passes by Dovi were still something to behold and required nerve, skill, planning and execution.
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August 9th, 2020, 04:32 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Read again, I said who has beaten Marquez more times than Dovi. Maybe I should be more specific. I don't count races where Marquez beat himself by crashing. I'm talking about head-to-head duels. I realize that's moving the goalposts, but really, what's pertinent, or germaine, is that riders who have beaten the freakishly talented Marquez in a head-to-head battle are by definition a very elite group. I don't use the term alien because it's a sophomoric and dated term/concept. There is no real consensus as to what constitutes being an "alien".

As to Honda not being the fool, uhhh....how many races did Lorenzo win for them?

And BTW - for years I've been saying Honda is foolish to put all their eggs in one basket by not making a more rider friendly bike. The stupidity of this way of doing things is only surpassed by the hiring of Alex as his teammate.
Wait a moment, that's not fair. JLo's style is not head-to-head battles, he just starts and run away, that's the way he won many races! Why, for the sake of the discussion, that wouldn't count as an 1 x 1 win? And more, the only race he needed to battle MM head-to-head, he WON (I think Phillip Island 2015, he overtook MM over the kerbs, it was a nice move).That race, he even went public asking for critics to shut up about he not being good enough on fierce battles.
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August 9th, 2020, 07:23 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
Sure don't disagree Jorge is the better rider and it would appear could develop a bike to suit his style but could also modify his strengths as he did on the duke.

Those passes by Dovi were still something to behold and required nerve, skill, planning and execution.
Sure, not many riders in history could make such passes on MM and get them to stick imo.

Even I as a JL fan find PI 2017 hard to defend although I would still like to think JL would have ceded position at the end of the race if it kept Dovi in the title race. It was perhaps somewhat reflective of the antipathy between the riders, but the discussion as to who was more responsible for the strength of the bike looks fairly firmly decided in JL’s favour now, and the ousting of JL although backing Dovi gave every appearance of being the way to go at the time (except for it not being being Gigi's wish) damaged both Ducati and even Dovi’s prospects imo, as he has gone back to where he was at Ducati pre JL and Gigi.

Last edited by michaelm; August 10th, 2020 at 12:47 AM.
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August 9th, 2020, 08:09 PM   #28
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Congrats to Binder. And to KTM. I don't think there was much doubt in the minds of folks who've followed racing that a combination of KTM and Red Bull, two entities that are super focused and just plain good at winning, would eventually get where they are. I am tho, really pleasantly surprised that they managed to pull it off in such a short time. As to what degree Pedrosa can be said to be responsible for this quantum leap in progress from last year to now... I'd want to hear it from a top person at KTM.

Have to admit, I would never have expected Morbidelli to just walk away from Fabio like that. Haven't had time to look at tire allocation, but of course it has to have been a factor. The way Yamaha keeps falling behind in development is truly sad. They have such a great tradition of greatness. I do fully expect that Fabio will come back strong.

And Zarco, gotta say I thought that pass was okay. He's been accused of rough passing before, and I really think that's what motivated race control to question the pass.

All in all, I can't recall the last time a final lap was so loaded with drama - for all three riders. Nearly pissed myself. Totally love and admire Marc, but it's defo better racing when he's away. The absence of the guy who predictably annihilates the field, definitely changes the mind-set of all the other riders. Totally different dynamic.

As to the "Dovi was never an alien" nonsense, puhhleeeze. He's old and he's burned out - but show me another rider who's beaten Marquez more times than Dovi.


Pit Beirer, KTM Motorsports Director: “For KTM this is an unbelievable day. It’s historic for our company and for the whole team but of course for Brad Binder; who has believed in us and our project for many years. Today is payback for so much hard work. We knew we had a better bike for this year and this did not happen by accident: it came from everything we learned during the last years. With Dani Pedrosa, Mika Kallio and the test team we worked and developed for over a full year to have this bike now. At the end of the day you need a fantastic rider to put the bike on the top step and Brad did it today, and in the same style as he won in Moto3 and Moto2 races for us. It´s an incredible feeling and we will now build on this result. On the other hand, I want to thank Pol Espargaro because also he - together with his crew – brought every piece of the puzzle together to bring this project to the top. Today is the result of a fantastic team effort: at home in Munderfing and Mattighofen, through the test team and a great crew on track.”
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August 10th, 2020, 03:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
He has won a few more premier class races than Crafar.
Simon was on Twitter last night, he said that now he's seen the overhead helicopter view (he didn't in pit lane during the race) that he was incorrect and Zarco did nothing wrong.

I really do like Mr Crafar, sure he was a cluster fuck when he first started doing the pitlane stuff, but he's 100% awesome now!

Macca
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August 10th, 2020, 03:26 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca View Post
Simon was on Twitter last night, he said that now he's seen the overhead helicopter view (he didn't in pit lane during the race) that he was incorrect and Zarco did nothing wrong.

I really do like Mr Crafar, sure he was a cluster fuck when he first started doing the pitlane stuff, but he's 100% awesome now!

Macca
He was terrible but even at the start if you put his awkwardness aside and just listened to what he was saying his insight was always incredible.
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