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February 24th, 2020, 09:04 AM   #1
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"Repsol Honda team boss Alberto Puig just told us they’re not just trying parts from last year today, but from ‘17/‘18 as well."

https://twitter.com/NeilMorrison87/stat ... 61377?s=20
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February 24th, 2020, 09:24 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
"Repsol Honda team boss Alberto Puig just told us they’re not just trying parts from last year today, but from ‘17/‘18 as well."

https://twitter.com/NeilMorrison87/stat ... 61377?s=20
Going back to the days when Dani still had some input perhaps?
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February 24th, 2020, 10:38 PM   #3
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Yeah Dani had input.
Had input for last years bike?
Might have been hard to ride but MM seemed to score a few points on it.
I am confident MM can get the bike to work with his own input.
Perhaps due to his ability to push the damn thing past what it should be able to do, but hey he'll do it I reckon.
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February 25th, 2020, 04:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
Yeah Dani had input.
Had input for last years bike?
Might have been hard to ride but MM seemed to score a few points on it.
I am confident MM can get the bike to work with his own input.
Perhaps due to his ability to push the damn thing past what it should be able to do, but hey he'll do it I reckon.
Seems like you were right:

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/ne...oblem/4694825/
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February 25th, 2020, 09:18 AM   #5
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Unless I missed it - the article speaks to all the older things they tried to no avail. Then Marquez says they "found the way" but offers no specifics. Nothing indicating developments inspired by Dani. Pretty vague.
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February 25th, 2020, 06:31 PM   #6
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Dani had input in the past.
Not recently and not relevant anymore, at least to Marquez.
You don't win 6 of the last 7 premier class titles without being able to provide constructive feedback imo.
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February 25th, 2020, 07:13 PM   #7
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Dani had input in the past.
Not recently and not relevant anymore, at least to Marquez.
You don't win 6 of the last 7 premier class titles without being able to provide constructive feedback imo.
I think the misunderstanding about feedback and development around Marquez is not that he can't give 'correct' feedback. As far as we know based on reported information Marquez gives the same or similar feedback to Stoner, Lorenzo and Crutchlow, the difference is that Marquez, probably similar to Stoner is willing to ride around problems if it means the bike will be faster. He is willing to forgo some ride-ability if it increases performance. There is a tipping point which is what he likely found this year during testing, that although according to engineers the bike should theoretically be faster, the difficulty of riding it fast results in it being unable to be ridden fast even for someone as supernatural as Marquez.

I'm not sure if I have gotten my point across clearly. So I'll say this. Marquez may not be able to ride a Yamaha any quicker than Fabio/Vinales/Lorenzo but if Yamaha had a way of making their bike faster but it compromised ride-ability he would embarrass them.
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February 25th, 2020, 09:15 PM   #8
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You said that fine mate.
Agreed
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February 25th, 2020, 09:19 PM   #9
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I think the misunderstanding about feedback and development around Marquez is not that he can't give 'correct' feedback. As far as we know based on reported information Marquez gives the same or similar feedback to Stoner, Lorenzo and Crutchlow, the difference is that Marquez, probably similar to Stoner is willing to ride around problems if it means the bike will be faster. He is willing to forgo some ride-ability if it increases performance. There is a tipping point which is what he likely found this year during testing, that although according to engineers the bike should theoretically be faster, the difficulty of riding it fast results in it being unable to be ridden fast even for someone as supernatural as Marquez.

I'm not sure if I have gotten my point across clearly. So I'll say this. Marquez may not be able to ride a Yamaha any quicker than Fabio/Vinales/Lorenzo but if Yamaha had a way of making their bike faster but it compromised ride-ability he would embarrass them.
I think it was said perhaps by the old team principal Nakamoto that Honda in the past anyway could make a bike with great one lap pace using full-on aerodynamics but which totally exhausted the rider in a few laps.

I think any assumption that Honda has a rider led ahead of an engineering led culture is misguided as has been said on this thread and by former Honda greats including Rossi and Mick Doohan, although without much rancour in Doohan’s case, just testament that he needed to continually derail engineering ‘improvements’.
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Last edited by michaelm; February 26th, 2020 at 01:32 AM.
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February 26th, 2020, 03:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
Dani had input in the past.
Not recently and not relevant anymore, at least to Marquez.
You don't win 6 of the last 7 premier class titles without being able to provide constructive feedback imo.
Never said he didn’t give feedback. I just think folks overestimate the degree to which said feedback actually determines engineering outcomes. Honda and Ducati engineers are famous for being egoistically attached to engineering concepts they work so hard on, believing riders are just another component that needs to adapt rather than the other way around. Remember when Ducati sent Melandri to a psychologist because they thought his mind wasn’t capable of wrapping itself around their tech concepts? The problem was clearly the bike, but the engineering department was blind to that. Honda’s been repeatedly guilty of that same mindset.

To fans the rider is a god, leading the charge into battle. To the factory - the rider is just another hired gun paid to do a job.

Last edited by Keshav; February 26th, 2020 at 03:30 AM.
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