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March 6th, 2020, 11:43 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by 320Dave View Post
All eggs in one basket is a cliche, however....if Marc gets hurt Honda eats shit and loses the WC.

This is reason enough to work on a side solution while Marc beats people on the shitty but fast Honda torpedo.
The fan boy perspective is short range. To them winning races is the sole objective.
When you are a bazillion dollar industry leader like Honda, the focus has to be long term. Honda is a world wide car/truck/motorcycle/tech eminence. Innovating and improving the breed is imperative. Having three talented riders on Hondas regularly being beaten by satellite riders from Ducati and Yamaha, and Suzuki as well, has to be mortifying. Marquez is a crutch used to prop up a bike that handles poorly compared to those of the competitors. Honda needs to step up their game.
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March 6th, 2020, 12:05 PM   #62
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The fan boy perspective is short range. To them winning races is the sole objective.
When you are a bazillion dollar industry leader like Honda, the focus has to be long term. Honda is a world wide car/truck/motorcycle/tech eminence. Innovating and improving the breed is imperative. Having three talented riders on Hondas regularly being beaten by satellite riders from Ducati and Yamaha, and Suzuki as well, has to be mortifying. Marquez is a crutch used to prop up a bike that handles poorly compared to those of the competitors. Honda needs to step up their game.
The Honda has been tailored to Marc's preferences, strengths and weaknesses. They have the engineering bench strength to pivot quickly if they need to (e.g. Marquez retirement).
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March 6th, 2020, 01:25 PM   #63
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"You need to know if you want an easier bike or a faster bike. I don't care if the bike is difficult as long as it's faster."

Above quoted directly from Marquez. He has said directly in no uncertain terms that the handling of the bike is deficient, but he's willing to overlook the poor handling because he has the capacity (and the salary) to ride around the handling. Not what you would call a ringing endorsement of the bike's handling. Especially when you are talking about a bike alleged to be blueprinted with Marquez in mind. Surely Honda are doing the best they can but if the bike is less stable than the Ducati under breaking and less smooth than the Suzuki, it is falling short. This is why Lorenzo only went to Honda because he had no other option. This is why Quatarraro was not in the least tempted to ride for Honda. Riders look at how badly Crutchlow has fared over the last 5 years and how injured he is and stay the hell away from the Honda.
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March 6th, 2020, 02:12 PM   #64
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It is quoted directly from MM apparently.
Whether he was just explaining the consequences for other riders of the bike, or saying that's the way it's gonna stay isn't that clear. It didn't appear to be a complaint.
Record point score on it is clear though. A higher score than his dominant 2014 season.
I don't expect it is going to get a heap easier for others whilst he is there.
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March 6th, 2020, 07:14 PM   #65
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It is quoted directly from MM apparently.
Whether he was just explaining the consequences for other riders of the bike, or saying that's the way it's gonna stay isn't that clear. It didn't appear to be a complaint.
Record point score on it is clear though. A higher score than his dominant 2014 season.
I don't expect it is going to get a heap easier for others whilst he is there.
.....Again you are casting doubt on things that nobody actually implied about Marquez. You never actually debate any logical statement anyone makes. If you don't know the difference between debate and diatribe, you can look it up online, for free.
.....If it's not a complaint, why would he make such statement to the press?
If Marquez says the sky is blue and it didn't fit with your beliefs, your reply would be he didn't say the sky was yellow.
.....As to why riders with other choices don't want to be on the Honda, this has been reported by paddock insiders repeatedly over the last few years. It's not exactly breaking news.
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March 6th, 2020, 08:18 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Walter View Post
.....Again you are casting doubt on things that nobody actually implied about Marquez. You never actually debate any logical statement anyone makes. If you don't know the difference between debate and diatribe, you can look it up online, for free.
.....If it's not a complaint, why would he make such statement to the press?
If Marquez says the sky is blue and it didn't fit with your beliefs, your reply would be he didn't say the sky was yellow.
.....As to why riders with other choices don't want to be on the Honda, this has been reported by paddock insiders repeatedly over the last few years. It's not exactly breaking news.
Playing the ball?

I am simply saying the bike is working well for Marquez.
The evidence is there that it is.
Nobody has had a better season on any bike.


Why would it be a complaint with those results?

If he is complaining about the bike they are delivering him, why sign a further 4 year contract riding their bikes?
Doesn't make sense to me :|
As far as me being a fan of Marquez I am.
I have been watching for quite a while and he is bloody good.
I am also a fan of Jorge, Fab, Dovi, Mav.
They are all great to watch.
I am a fan of the sport ahead of any rider but I am enjoying Marquez's skill on the bike.

I don't think Honda are stupid and they are getting results.
As I said, I would have liked Jorge to have had more time, less injury and more input, but yes the 2019 Honda did not suit him.

Would any rider do better on the same bike Marquez has been on for 7 years?
It is a big call, he is capable of doing stuff I haven't seen others as capable at.

We will see if the others can bring speed and consistency this season.

Last edited by warthog1; March 6th, 2020 at 08:28 PM.
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March 6th, 2020, 08:47 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
The Honda has been tailored to Marc's preferences, strengths and weaknesses. They have the engineering bench strength to pivot quickly if they need to (e.g. Marquez retirement).
He won easily on a more generally rideable bike as well. The MM has made the bike difficult for others line seems more like the last thing left for his critics as he obliterates all of Rossi’s records to me.

If they could easily give the bike more straight line performance, in regard to which the current Honda has deficiencies in comparison with Ducati according to another current thread, why don’t they ?. I am sure MM wouldn’t object.
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March 7th, 2020, 07:45 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
The Honda has been tailored to Marc's preferences, strengths and weaknesses. They have the engineering bench strength to pivot quickly if they need to (e.g. Marquez retirement).


Rossi is riding into the sunset and not gonna win another championship, man. He would be lucky to win another race with Fabio getting better and faster on the same bike. I do get amused at people taking a dig at MM in a subtle way though.
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March 7th, 2020, 10:43 AM   #69
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Rossi is riding into the sunset and not gonna win another championship, man. He would be lucky to win another race with Fabio getting better and faster on the same bike. I do get amused at people taking a dig at MM in a subtle way though.
I don't see it as a dig at Marquez. It's critical observation about Honda's inability to make a bike that comparably rider friendly, to that of it's main competitors. Marquez is not directing Honda R&D. It's more that he is an enabler who rides around problems with the bike, allowing Honda to rest on their laurels, rather than digging in and coming up with solutions.

Race fans tend to have a myopic view of what Honda is and what their goals are as a business. The conglomerate entity known as Honda, does not exist for the sole purpose of competing at racetracks. While it's true that the Japanese enjoy the prestige gained by winning championships, it has to be borne in mind that much of the impetus of racing efforts is driven by the end value of the what the companies learn from the R&D that goes into creating competitive bikes - the worth of which in the long game is derived from being able to use that technology in the mass-produced products they sell to the general public.

Remember how successful the GSXR was when Spies and Mladin were racing each other? Club riders and pro riders alike were buying Gixxers like crazy back then. But imagine if you will, if the GSXRs handled like crap and nobody could use them unless they were as talented as Spies and Mladin.

Imagine if BMW built a sport car that was only capable when ridden by Louis Hamilton. Who would buy that car? Well maybe a few pretentious middle-ages schmucks with too much money. LOL.
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March 7th, 2020, 02:48 PM   #70
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I see it pretty simply.
Honda competes.
They want to win.
Give Marquez what he needs to do the job and he does it.
Both parties seem happy.
They are in trouble without Marquez however.
They have been there before though.
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