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February 23rd, 2020, 02:31 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
Both Lorenzo and Crutchlow have on several occasions expressed a preference for the previous specification of the RC213V, which lacked the straightline speed of the current bike but was easier to ride.

But while Marquez has repeatedly stressed he agrees with their feedback, he has also made it clear he viewed the extra pace as a worthwhile trade-off.

"In some aspects, the 2018 bike's engine was somewhat easier, but the laptimes were two or three tenths slower," Marquez said

"You need to know if you want an easier bike or a faster bike. I don't care if the bike is difficult as long as it's faster.

"I'm the first one who wants to keep the power but at the same time have more traction and a smoother engine, and that's what all the Honda riders are saying. But the Honda engine has been the same since I arrived in 2013, and that's not going to change now."


https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/ne...w/4559277/amp/
But that's the only sensible attitude MM could have about the bike. This doesn't mean that he wants to be riding a bike that's difficult to handle. His priority is performance. If he couldn't extract the performance out of the bike, he would be joining the other riders in asking for more ride-ability.

The same goes for Honda. I can't blame them for not prioritizing performance if MM is able to dominate with the bike as it is. The won both constructors and riders championships with the bike as is.

The only thing we can blame MM for is being a fantastic rider. Fantastic riders will be influential within teams and quite rightfully so. It's silly to blame them for developmental directions that favour them.
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February 23rd, 2020, 03:20 AM   #22
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Agreed.
Speed is his priority.
He is better at extracting it.
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February 23rd, 2020, 12:16 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
Both Lorenzo and Crutchlow have on several occasions expressed a preference for the previous specification of the RC213V, which lacked the straightline speed of the current bike but was easier to ride.

But while Marquez has repeatedly stressed he agrees with their feedback, he has also made it clear he viewed the extra pace as a worthwhile trade-off.

"In some aspects, the 2018 bike's engine was somewhat easier, but the laptimes were two or three tenths slower," Marquez said

"You need to know if you want an easier bike or a faster bike. I don't care if the bike is difficult as long as it's faster.

"I'm the first one who wants to keep the power but at the same time have more traction and a smoother engine, and that's what all the Honda riders are saying. But the Honda engine has been the same since I arrived in 2013, and that's not going to change now."


https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/ne...w/4559277/amp/
Unsure how they can claim Lorenzo would have had a preference for an earlier RC2131V - since he never raced one - unless said opinion is based on off-season testing.
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February 23rd, 2020, 01:33 PM   #24
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https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/93...kay-2018-honda
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February 23rd, 2020, 02:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by warthog1 View Post
As surmised - he only rode a two year old bike in test conditions. Didn’t do race simulations or ride under race conditions. Probably never posted lap times from those tests. Kind of a meaningless statement.

It occurs, that as long as MM feels confident that he can handle the physical and mental drain of continuing to ride around the handling deficiencies of the RCV, he really has no motivation to push HRC for a more ride friendly bike: it'd be like arming his competition.
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Last edited by Keshav; February 24th, 2020 at 08:07 AM.
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February 23rd, 2020, 06:49 PM   #26
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'With last year's bike I was quite quick and my confidence was okay' - Jorge Lorenzo.

Jorge Lorenzo is hoping that next year's Honda can revive some of the front-end confidence he had felt during his outings on the 2018 machine.

Although injured during the final stages of his Ducati career, a sore Lorenzo made his Honda debut during last November'sValencia and Jerez tests, signing-off 2018 a competitive fourth-fastest and 0.160s from the top.

Last edited by warthog1; February 23rd, 2020 at 07:01 PM.
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February 24th, 2020, 02:31 AM   #27
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Many journos saying that Honda is worried about the 2020 bike, apparently it's worse in all respects compared to the previous year's bike.

It would be ironic if Honda started a period of dud bikes now that Marquez is tied to them for 4 years...
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February 24th, 2020, 07:38 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
It's a little disingenuous to blame Marquez directly. IMHO - his part of the "blame" has to do with the way he rides around the Honda's engineering idiosyncrasies. It's like blaming Stoner for the crappy handling of the early Ducati, that nobody else could do well with. Same dynamic with the Honda.

Remember when MM loved the bike and then hated the next season iteration and begged for the previous year's chassis?

Ducati and Honda are both famous having great development riders . . . and ignoring their input. With the advent of Gigi - that has changed at Ducati. At Honda
- not so much.
I wasnt blaming MM, i was giving him the responsibility he bears for the last few years development....Dani led development from 2006 until 2013 from what i can tell....though some input may have come from Casey it was limited given his short tenure.....once MM took lead on input the bike has become harder and harder to ride, and only he really can ride well.....but that is clearly going toward a dead end road from what we've seen in 2019 and now in testing....
If i were HRC i'd be panicking right now....
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February 24th, 2020, 08:26 AM   #29
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I wasnt blaming MM, i was giving him the responsibility he bears for the last few years development....Dani led development from 2006 until 2013 from what i can tell....though some input may have come from Casey it was limited given his short tenure.....once MM took lead on input the bike has become harder and harder to ride, and only he really can ride well.....but that is clearly going toward a dead end road from what we've seen in 2019 and now in testing....
If i were HRC i'd be panicking right now....
I go with the school of thought that maintains that rider that rider input informs the overall direction of the bikes development - but is far from being a iron-clad template to which engineers strictly adhere. Honda saw how brilliantly Stoner could ride around the resulting defects of Ducati’s stubborn use of proprietary design regardless of how badly said idiosyncrasies impacted the handling and hired him to gloss over the bikes deficiencies. HRC saw the same quality in Marquez. They pragmatically use riders the way Shogunates used samurai with no regard for the risk to the individual. They’re just employees there to do a job.

Japanese don’t panic. The know realistically a winning streak only lasts so long. The glory and the good PR from such a long string of victories will endow them with status and increased sales long after Marquez retires. Same reason Yamaha keeps Rossi on a leash all these years.
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Last edited by Keshav; March 3rd, 2020 at 11:21 AM.
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March 3rd, 2020, 08:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Which is great for Marc of course, and whilst he's there great for Honda.

The question is what does it leave them after the 4 years is up and Marc moves on...
It’s like he said. When the time comes to build a bike that is not Marquez centric, they will do it in an overnight fashion. They have that capability. Up until now, the tires dictated a point and shoot style would win over the course of a season. If these new tires with better edge grip change the strategy to needing corner speed, Honda will have a bike prepared for 2021 that will do just that and Marc has proven he can be any type rider the technical regulations call for. I can see maybe one year out of the next 5 that Marquez doesn’t win the title.
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