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February 21st, 2020, 01:13 AM   #11
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A

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The 2009 - 2010 & 2011 880cc Honda was a great bike. 2012 bike was also great but they lost their tires 5 races in.

2013 good and then 2014 they seemed to just drop the ball and make an unrideable bullet, fast but not safe.
MM was close to invincible on the 2014 bike. 2015 was when he frequently crashed out.
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February 21st, 2020, 01:41 AM   #12
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MM was close to invincible on the 2014 bike. 2015 was when he frequently crashed out.
From 2015 onwards there have been major issues with the bike. How much of that is tyres and/or custom electronics Iím not sure but IMO of the 4 top factories theyíre the factory with the biggest issues in the past 5-6 seasons. I know getting the balance right is difficult but for every step or two they take forward they take one backwards.

Sure the Ducati still doesnít turn great, although I suspect Marquez would make it turn with insane lean angles as he did last year. But by all reports itís great on the brakes/front end and itís acceleration has always been a strong point.

Yamaha had an electrics engineer apologise to Vinales and Rossi for some reason. But the M1 has never had complaints like that of Ducati and Honda or required physicality and sublime skills to be ridden fast.
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February 21st, 2020, 08:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 320Dave View Post
The 2009 - 2010 & 2011 880cc Honda was a great bike. 2012 bike was also great but they lost their tires 5 races in.

2013 good and then 2014 they seemed to just drop the ball and make an unrideable bullet, fast but not safe.
880 was 800. And that formula was a disaster. Total cluster fuck. Made for the worst processional racing ever. Little to no passing in that era. Would like to forget those seasons altogether.
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February 21st, 2020, 08:50 PM   #14
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The only real surprise here is the length of the contract. Then again, even with the risk of injury I'm sure there were all the appropriate clauses in place. Honda may have all of their eggs in one basket, but so far with the exception of 2015 it has proved to have worthy returns. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during the negotiations.

Thank god the off season is almost over. Only a matter of weeks till the new season kicks off.
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February 21st, 2020, 11:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 320Dave View Post
The 2009 - 2010 & 2011 880cc Honda was a great bike. 2012 bike was also great but they lost their tires 5 races in.

2013 good and then 2014 they seemed to just drop the ball and make an unrideable bullet, fast but not safe.
The bike was so good because Dani was leading development .. once Marquez was leading development the bike has gone to pot for all but MM. ....
Watch as KTM improves this year with Dani input..
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February 22nd, 2020, 01:54 AM   #16
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880 was 800. And that formula was a disaster. Total cluster fuck. Made for the worst processional racing ever. Little to no passing in that era. Would like to forget those seasons altogether.


Never said the GP was great but the Honda was, look at 2011.
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February 22nd, 2020, 01:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
MM was close to invincible on the 2014 bike. 2015 was when he frequently crashed out.


Ah ok thanks, why do I not remember 2014 at all?
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February 22nd, 2020, 01:53 PM   #18
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The bike was so good because Dani was leading development .. once Marquez was leading development the bike has gone to pot for all but MM. ....
Watch as KTM improves this year with Dani input..
It's a little disingenuous to blame Marquez directly. IMHO - his part of the "blame" has to do with the way he rides around the Honda's engineering idiosyncrasies. It's like blaming Stoner for the crappy handling of the early Ducati, that nobody else could do well with. Same dynamic with the Honda.

Remember when MM loved the bike and then hated the next season iteration and begged for the previous year's chassis?

Ducati and Honda are both famous having great development riders . . . and ignoring their input. With the advent of Gigi - that has changed at Ducati. At Honda
- not so much.
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February 22nd, 2020, 01:55 PM   #19
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Never said the GP was great but the Honda was, look at 2011.
Didn't mean to imply that you did Mate.
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February 22nd, 2020, 03:53 PM   #20
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Both Lorenzo and Crutchlow have on several occasions expressed a preference for the previous specification of the RC213V, which lacked the straightline speed of the current bike but was easier to ride.

But while Marquez has repeatedly stressed he agrees with their feedback, he has also made it clear he viewed the extra pace as a worthwhile trade-off.

"In some aspects, the 2018 bike's engine was somewhat easier, but the laptimes were two or three tenths slower," Marquez said

"You need to know if you want an easier bike or a faster bike. I don't care if the bike is difficult as long as it's faster.

"I'm the first one who wants to keep the power but at the same time have more traction and a smoother engine, and that's what all the Honda riders are saying. But the Honda engine has been the same since I arrived in 2013, and that's not going to change now."


https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/ne...w/4559277/amp/
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