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February 10th, 2020, 04:28 AM   #71
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If I understand correctly - the latest surgery was preventative in nature. Shoulders in general, like knees - have limits as regards multiple repairs. Having been through multiple rotator cuff injuries in both shoulders as well as an A/B separation in the left it’s pretty remarkable how much strength and normal functionality I retain, even if range is somewhat limited. And I’m twice his age. But if Marquez is continually popping out of his sockets he’s going to need to take a seat on the Yamaha to make that magic 10th, assuming that’s his agenda.
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February 10th, 2020, 04:50 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Yes, the difficulty of the task of beating MM is hard to over-estimate. If Dovi is the modern day equivalent of Randy Mamola that does not exactly make him chopped liver.

I do wonder how much longer the MM show goes on though. This latest shoulder thing is no joke, and he looks like starting the season incompletely recovered from the injury and surgery and I am not sure how much longer his body can last given his extreme riding style.
I agree with the fact people will eventually need to adapt his riding style, but I feel like he tends to keep his cards close to his chest. Last season he made it seem as if he was down and out, but that turned out to be embarrassing for everyone. I'm afraid he will have a career ending injury with his current level of aggression. Something similar to Spies, where if he wants to lift his arms, he needs to stop riding bikes. Then again its quite possible he's been told this already and chooses to ignore the advice in quest of glory. I feel bad to think of what some of modern athletes will be like in 20-30 years time. They push harder than the generation before them to the point of no return physically.
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February 10th, 2020, 05:28 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
If I understand correctly - the latest surgery was preventative in nature. Shoulders in general, like knees - have limits as regards multiple repairs. Having been through multiple rotator cuff injuries in both shoulders as well as an A/B separation in the left it’s pretty remarkable how much strength and normal functionality I retain, even if range is somewhat limited. And I’m twice his age. But if Marquez is continually popping out of his sockets he’s going to need to take a seat on the Yamaha to make that magic 10th, assuming that’s his agenda.
I may be misinformed, I thought he suffered yet another shoulder injury unnecessarily trying to prove something against FQ late last season. I think you may be the exception in having such good results from multiple shoulder surgeries, and you are not riding bikes to the extremes he does these days although I know you have raced extensively in the past.

I think testing the limits of his bike in practice by crashing it is a young man’s method, and he does intersperse those usually on the low impact side of things crashes with the occasional massive high side. One of the reasons Stoner who had a similarly out there riding style retired at a similar age to MM’s current age was I believe a concern he might end up with permanent physical impairment, and I think that crash he had in the Suzuka race after he retired from MotoGP confirmed his view.

Last edited by michaelm; February 12th, 2020 at 02:53 AM.
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February 10th, 2020, 06:25 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I may be misinformed, I thought he suffered yet another shoulder injury unnecessarily trying to prove something against FQ late last season. I think you may be the exception in having such good results from multiple shoulder surgeries, and you are not riding bikes to the extremes he does these days although I know you have raced extensively in the past.

I think testing the limits of his bike in practice by crashing it is a young man’s method, and he does intersperse those usually on the low impact side of things crashes with the occasional massive high side. One of the reasons Stoner Who had a similarly out there riding style retired at a similar age to MM’s current age was I believe a concern he might end up with permanent physical impairment, and I think that crash he had in the Suzuka race after he retired from MotoGP confirmed his view.
To be sure - I wouldn’t imply any direct comparison between me and Marquez. I BTW never had corrective surgeries for my injuries because insurance might pay for it - but I couldn’t afford to take time off from work to do rehab and recuperation. Back then of course nobody did fitness training either. Today - despite injuries and being a geezer, I still ride the paint off my lightweight supermotos, less so my Adv bike.

My point was merely that with superior contemporary surgical techniques and Marquez’s highly developed musculature and relative youth The odds on a 10th seem championship seem better than those for Doohan’s last one; a thing many bet against.

Re: permanent damage, just a gut feeling - I don’t think MM gives much thought to that.

Last edited by Keshav; February 10th, 2020 at 09:36 AM.
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February 10th, 2020, 04:15 PM   #75
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MM seemed to do ok last year in a similar condition.
I think he will be fine this year.

With respect to his risk of injury, yes he rides the bike over the limit and sliding.
We have never seen a rider as capable of recovering a front end slide.
Most of his crashes have been off the front end however that was reduced last year.
More power meant he was not forced to recover so much ground on braking and corner entry.
We will see this year. I personally hope to see that sublime bike control again, but I hope he stays upright.

At least one of the test crashes I read he didn't have the shoulder strength to save it.
It is improving.

Sepang is a great circuit for the sharp handling inline fours but it seems they have made a step and like the new rear tyre.

Can't wait for the season to start.
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February 10th, 2020, 08:43 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I may be misinformed, I thought he suffered yet another shoulder injury unnecessarily trying to prove something against FQ late last season. I think you may be the exception in having such good results from multiple shoulder surgeries, and you are not riding bikes to the extremes he does these days although I know you have raced extensively in the past.

I think testing the limits of his bike in practice by crashing it is a young manís method, and he does intersperse those usually on the low impact side of things crashes with the occasional massive high side. One of the reasons Stoner Who had a similarly out there riding style retired at a similar age to MMís current age was I believe a concern he might end up with permanent physical impairment, and I think that crash he had in the Suzuka race after he retired from MotoGP confirmed his view.
IIRC the surgery wasnít because of an injury. Just a proactive type of surgery. Iíve had a shoulder reconstruction and I donít think that these surgeries will impact Marquez in any meaningful way once he has recovered.
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February 10th, 2020, 11:12 PM   #77
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I think he is very likely to get the 9th, and quite likely the 10th. The 15th I am not so confident about the way he rides.

I am not so sure about repetitive shoulder re- constructions on premier class MotoGP riders, particularly if they continue to fall off their bikes. I agree he won’t have any concern about limited shoulder movement or whatever post-career, one of the differences between him and Stoner. I am a Stoner fanboy obviously, but considered him to be close to equally fearless on track but rather more contemplative off-track, hence some of his abreactions in interviews post race when his adrenaline levels had dropped.
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February 11th, 2020, 04:26 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
If I understand correctly - the latest surgery was preventative in nature. Shoulders in general, like knees - have limits as regards multiple repairs. Having been through multiple rotator cuff injuries in both shoulders as well as an A/B separation in the left itís pretty remarkable how much strength and normal functionality I retain, even if range is somewhat limited. And Iím twice his age. But if Marquez is continually popping out of his sockets heís going to need to take a seat on the Yamaha to make that magic 10th, assuming thatís his agenda.
Funny you say this as I had a similar train of thought re: his potential future. There's no denying MM93's ability on a bike, but am I the only one who thinks a title win on another manufacturer would just further add to his legend?
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February 11th, 2020, 06:29 AM   #79
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A topic of endless speculation here.
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February 11th, 2020, 07:06 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by gregbest90 View Post
Funny you say this as I had a similar train of thought re: his potential future. There's no denying MM93's ability on a bike, but am I the only one who thinks a title win on another manufacturer would just further add to his legend?
Unless he won on a KTM or Aprilia it doesnít do that much IMO. Ducati has had the best bike for the last few years, though I believe Yamaha may have been the best last year despite what others think. Yamaha is the second most successful factory of all time so does it really matter, their riders are always competitive even on satellite machines. Suzuki is similar to Yamaha.

Riding a flawed bike that no one else can consistently ride fast including a 5 time world champion is more impressive than winning on a Ducati or Yamaha IMO.
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