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-   -   Marquez Must Reduce Risk To Break Rossi's Record (http://motogpforum.com/motogp/25130-marquez-must-reduce-risk-break-rossis-record.html)

Keshav November 27th, 2019 05:51 AM

Marquez Must Reduce Risk To Break Rossi's Record
 
Okay - this is not exactly front page news. But apparently he did damage to the shoulder qualifying in Sepang and has banged it up badly enough during testing in Jerez, that Kropo posted on his site with the headline:

UPDATE: Marc Marquez To Have Surgery On Dislocated Right Shoulder.

Then went on to say Marquez is going to a hospital in Barcelona today to have the shoulder looked at.

I reckon he can manage a 9th even with the bum shoulder. But 10 is a stretch.

povol November 27th, 2019 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keshav (Post 463094)
Okay - this is not exactly front page news. But apparently he did damage to the shoulder qualifying in Sepang and has banged it up badly enough during testing in Jerez, that Kropo posted on his site with the headline:

UPDATE: Marc Marquez To Have Surgery On Dislocated Right Shoulder.

Then went on to say Marquez is going to a hospital in Barcelona today to have the shoulder looked at.

I reckon he can manage a 9th even with the bum shoulder. But 10 is a stretch.

Yep, he has to use a different strategy besides pushing till you crash to find limits. It may slow his win total but unless he has complications, no one currently can beat him on a season. His record after returning from surgery is other worldly. In 14 he missed most of testing with a broken leg and wins the first ten races of the year. In 19, following serious shoulder surgery, he has the most dominant season maybe ever. He has 7 BMWís , so donít risk the career to get poles, anywhere top 3-4 will work. He must make changes or he could be done by 30

michaelm November 28th, 2019 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by povol (Post 463096)
Yep, he has to use a different strategy besides pushing till you crash to find limits. It may slow his win total but unless he has complications, no one currently can beat him on a season. His record after returning from surgery is other worldly. In 14 he missed most of testing with a broken leg and wins the first ten races of the year. In 19, following serious shoulder surgery, he has the most dominant season maybe ever. He has 7 BMWís , so donít risk the career to get poles, anywhere top 3-4 will work. He must make changes or he could be done by 30

Particularly since this particular accident was not even exploring track/bike limits but rather playing ducks and drakes with FQ.

Keshav November 28th, 2019 06:45 AM

Damage was as bad as suspected. Marquez's surgery is completed. Look forward to another season of announcers mentioning it every five minutes to heighten the excitement (or lack of it) during the dull parts of any given race.

320Dave November 29th, 2019 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keshav (Post 463099)
Damage was as bad as suspected. Marquez's surgery is completed. Look forward to another season of announcers mentioning it every five minutes to heighten the excitement (or lack of it) during the dull parts of any given race.

Just joking btw but...

Will they say that after or before his X-Rays get stolen?

Keshav November 29th, 2019 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 320Dave (Post 463100)
Just joking btw but...

Will they say that after or before his X-Rays get stolen?

Okay - I'll bite, what's that mean? :p

320Dave November 30th, 2019 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keshav (Post 463101)
Okay - I'll bite, what's that mean? :p

It's when there was a famous broken Yellow femur or tibia or something like that 2 years ago and the commentators just kept yapping about how heroic the guy was.

When asked about the X-rays they were "stolen" so he couldn't prove the broken bone.

evo9 November 30th, 2019 11:32 AM


michaelm November 30th, 2019 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 320Dave (Post 463102)
It's when there was a famous broken Yellow femur or tibia or something like that 2 years ago and the commentators just kept yapping about how heroic the guy was.

When asked about the X-rays they were "stolen" so he couldn't prove the broken bone.

There wasn’t much in the way of doubt about the compound tibial fracture he sustained in 2009 which didn’t require an X-ray to diagnose, and while I am obviously not a fan of him because of his off-track machinations, the hate campaigns against his rivals he orchestrates in particular, he did come back from that injury fairly ridiculously early in terms of what would be expected for a common man, and was sufficiently unperturbed by it to win a race.(EDIT 2010 I meant obviously, he won the title in 2009)

Keshav November 30th, 2019 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 320Dave (Post 463102)
It's when there was a famous broken Yellow femur or tibia or something like that 2 years ago and the commentators just kept yapping about how heroic the guy was.

When asked about the X-rays they were "stolen" so he couldn't prove the broken bone.

Not sure if I ever heard about that. Would be on a par with bullshit from Trump if it were just a publicity stunt. Even without an x-ray, given how much everything these guys do is so heavily documented, one would expect someone would have taken a picture of the injured leg with a cellphone. Where's Zapruder when you need him? :p

320Dave December 1st, 2019 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelm (Post 463104)
There wasnít much in the way of doubt about the compound tibial fracture he sustained in 2009 which didnít require an X-ray to diagnose, and while I am obviously not a fan of him because of his off-track machinations, the hate campaigns against his rivals he orchestrates in particular, he did come back from that injury fairly ridiculously early in terms of what would be expected for a common man, and was sufficiently unperturbed by it to win a race.



Depuniet Randy broke the same that same year riding the playboy bike, came back sooner than Rossi and nobody mentioned shit.

I will hate Rossi until my heart is content. AKA never.

michaelm December 2nd, 2019 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 320Dave (Post 463106)
Depuniet Randy broke the same that same year riding the playboy bike, came back sooner than Rossi and nobody mentioned shit.

I will hate Rossi until my heart is content. AKA never.

I am not a million miles away from you on Valentino, since 2015 anyway when much that was hidden became obvious; I had blamed his crazy fans, which doesn't necessarily include all his fans, up until then.

That 2010 tibial fracture was no joking matter however, a compound fracture sufficiently violent to break through the skin. His leathers contained it and saved the fracture from being contaminated allowing primary closure only a few days later, and given that there was no complication, and no infection in particular, resulted in a subsequent recovery probably not much different than De Puniet's. It was still a gruesome injury though, and the sangfroid involved in him returning and winning a race only a few races later while not making him unique on the grid was rather impressive by any criterion, even for me however far removed from being a fan of his I might be.

320Dave December 3rd, 2019 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelm (Post 463107)
I am not a million miles away from you on Valentino, since 2015 anyway when much that was hidden became obvious; I had blamed his crazy fans, which doesn't necessarily include all his fans, up until then.

That 2010 tibial fracture was no joking matter however, a compound fracture sufficiently violent to break through the skin. His leathers contained it and saved the fracture from being contaminated allowing primary closure only a few days later, and given that there was no complication, and no infection in particular, resulted in a subsequent recovery probably not much different than De Puniet's. It was still a gruesome injury though, and the sangfroid involved in him returning and winning a race only a few races later while not making him unique on the grid was rather impressive by any criterion, even for me however far removed from being a fan of his I might be.


That's fair, you are being fair.

Rossi has never been fair and I enjoy being a cunt towards him for that same reason.

I couldn't care less if he came back in greed with a recently broken leg only to try and mess with Jorge to prove a point.

That last lap overtake at Catalunya was also a piece of shit move as he blocked Lorenzo to the inside and made him stay there otherwise they would touch and possibly crash messing with Jorge's championship battle.

moto vudu December 3rd, 2019 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 320Dave (Post 463111)
That's fair, you are being fair.

Rossi has never been fair and I enjoy being a cunt towards him for that same reason.

I couldn't care less if he came back in greed with a recently broken leg only to try and mess with Jorge to prove a point.

That last lap overtake at Catalunya was also a piece of shit move as he blocked Lorenzo to the inside and made him stay there otherwise they would touch and possibly crash messing with Jorge's championship battle.

You've never been a cunt towards him, he doesn't even know you exist. The only person your feelings are impacting is you.

320Dave December 3rd, 2019 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463112)
You've never been a cunt towards him, he doesn't even know you exist. The only person your feelings are impacting is you.


He drove past me once in Montmelo and I waived my fist at him so technically he does know I exist? :p

I know though I am being a hater & not a cunt.

I do however know I can ruffle some yellow feathers with a half assed try anywhere on the internet though haha.

Little Walter December 3rd, 2019 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463112)
You've never been a cunt towards him, he doesn't even know you exist. The only person your feelings are impacting is you.

For that matter, how can we be certain that YOU exist? You could be a Russian Troll Bot for all we know.

michaelm December 3rd, 2019 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463112)
You've never been a cunt towards him, he doesn't even know you exist. The only person your feelings are impacting is you.

The same applies in spades to his fans of the variety who joined the campaigns of vilification against his rivals which he orchestrated of course, many more than those with the opposing inclination over most of his career.

moto vudu December 3rd, 2019 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 320Dave (Post 463113)
He drove past me once in Montmelo and I waived my fist at him so technically he does know I exist? :p

I know though I am being a hater & not a cunt.

I do however know I can ruffle some yellow feathers with a half assed try anywhere on the internet though haha.

Are you sure he saw that fist wave?:rolleyes:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Walter (Post 463114)
For that matter, how can we be certain that YOU exist? You could be a Russian Troll-Bot for all we know.

Russians wouldn't program a bot to troll this forum, their bot would troll politcal forums hoping to influence elections.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelm (Post 463115)
The same applies in spades to his fans of the variety who joined the campaigns of vilification against his rivals which he orchestrated of course, many more than those with the opposing inclination over most of his career.

You overestimate the ability of a sports team or sports figure to control their fans. There have been killings at soccer matches, do you believe a team or player orchestrated it? People are tribal by nature, when they like a particular team, athlete/racer, many of them will start to hate the rivals. Rossi doesn't tell his fan anything, they act on their own free will.

BarryMachine December 3rd, 2019 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463112)
You've never been a cunt towards him, he doesn't even know you exist. The only person your feelings are impacting is you.

No way!!! He makes some folk real happy with his comments. And thats all that matters ...... who gives a toss about rossi?

michaelm December 3rd, 2019 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463116)
Are you sure he saw that fist wave?:rolleyes:




Russians wouldn't program a bot to troll this forum, their bot would troll politcal forums hoping to influence elections.



You overestimate the ability of a sports team or sports figure to control their fans. There have been killings at soccer matches, do you believe a team or player orchestrated it? People are tribal by nature, when they like a particular team, athlete/racer, many of them will start to hate the rivals. Rossi doesn't tell his fan anything, they act on their own free will.

You are the one generalising matters, I am of the opinion that Rossi specifically has orchestrated campaigns of vilification against a number of his rivals in the sport of gp bike racing, hence my dislike for/disapproval of him. Prior to 2015 I blamed a fringe element among his fandom rather than Rossi himself, but the events of late season 2015 made it very clear he was fully complicit. Marquez actually called him on it, then used it as extra motivation rather than being dismayed as were the likes of Biaggi, Gibernau and Stoner, one of the reasons I came to admire him after initially belonging to the Ďmurder marcí school of
thought.

moto vudu December 3rd, 2019 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelm (Post 463118)
You are the one generalising matters, I am of the opinion that Rossi specifically has orchestrated campaigns of vilification against a number of his rivals in the sport of gp bike racing, hence my dislike for/disapproval of him. Prior to 2015 I blamed a fringe element among his fandom rather than Rossi himself, but the events of late season 2015 made it very clear he was fully complicit. Marquez actually called him on it, then used it as extra motivation rather than being dismayed as were the likes of Biaggi, Gibernau and Stoner, one of the reasons I came to admire him after initially belonging to the ‘murder marc’ school of
thought.

How did Rossi orchestrate compaigns of vilification? His fans will typically dislike his rivals by default just like fans of Rossi's rivals dislike him. The only difference is Rossi has the most fans.

Furiosa December 4th, 2019 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelm (Post 463118)
Y...I am of the opinion that Rossi specifically has orchestrated campaigns of vilification against a number of his rivals in the sport of gp bike racing, hence my dislike for/disapproval of him. Prior to 2015 I blamed a fringe element among his fandom rather than Rossi himself, but the events of late season 2015 made it very clear he was fully complicit. Marquez actually called him on it, then used it as extra motivation rather than being dismayed as were the likes of Biaggi, Gibernau and Stoner, one of the reasons I came to admire him after initially belonging to the Ďmurder marcí school of
thought.

100% agree and same with 2015

michaelm December 4th, 2019 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463119)
How did Rossi orchestrate compaigns of vilification? His fans will typically dislike his rivals by default just like fans of Rossi's rivals dislike him. The only difference is Rossi has the most fans.

Imo only (of course) you are being disingenuous.

He clearly demonstrated he was in control of much of this in 2015, which is when my attitude changed. After PI 2015 his fans were initially targeting Iannone, which he totally canned with a sentence or two, while inflaming them against MM in that infamous pre-Sepang 2015 press conference with his ridiculous allegation that MM had tanked a race that he actually won, in the process depriving Lorenzo of 5 points, to aid Lorenzo against him. This would have been fairly silly imo if he had concluded this on his own, but might have had more credibility given he is a very great rider with more experience and knowledge than any observer, but it later emerged that it was Uccio who came up with the PI conspiracy theory as said motogp maven subsequently proudly announced. For me this brought the previous anti-Biaggi and anti-Stoner stuff, the Gibernau curse etc etc into sharp relief; what were the fabled mind games if not significantly about employing his massive fan base against his rivals?. MM actually directly called him on it as I have said.

michaelm December 4th, 2019 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furiosa (Post 463120)
100% agree and same with 2015

I didnít cast Jorge as one of those dismayed as I donít believe he is particularly easily dismayed, but I do think as with Stonerís early retirement that things became so poisonous for him that his career ended less gloriously than he deserved. Jorge clearly wanted to be a Yamaha guy for life but that option became untenable for him despite winning 3 titles for them, like Roberts, Lawson and Rainey, in his case Yamahaís last 3 titles.

moto vudu December 4th, 2019 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelm (Post 463121)
Imo only (of course) you are being disingenuous.

He clearly demonstrated he was in control of much of this in 2015, which is when my attitude changed. After PI 2015 his fans were initially targeting Iannone, which he totally canned with a sentence or two, while inflaming them against MM in that notorious pre-Sepang 2015 press conference with his ridiculous allegation that MM had tanked a race that he actually won, in the process depriving Lorenzo of 5 points, to aid Lorenzo against him. This would have been fairly silly no if he had come up with said conspiracy theory on his own, but might have had more credibility if he had concluded this on his own given he is a very great rider with more experience and knowledge than any observer, but it later emerged that it was Uccio who came up with the PI conspiracy theory as said motogp maven subsequently proudly announced. For me this brought the previous anti-Biaggi and anti-Stoner stuff, the Gibernau curse etc etc into sharp relief; what were the fabled mind games if not significantly about employing his massive fan base against his rivals?.. MM actually directly called him on it as I have said.

You really are stuck in 2015 aren't you? Did you just finish watching Mayweather vs Pacquiao? What about the VW emissions scandal? Kobe Bryant retired!?!!

michaelm December 4th, 2019 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463123)
You really are stuck in 2015 aren't you? Did you just finish watching Mayweather vs Pacquiao? What about the VW emissions scandal? Kobe Bryant retired!?!!

I am away from home working at the moment, but did watch a replay of the recent Lakers vs Mavs game in my motel room last night and was deeply impressed by Doncic.

If you are arguing the point you are arguing it is rather convenient for you to want me to forget 2015. I am prepared to forget that season when Valentino does, and he resiles not from his stance on the events of that year.

320Dave December 4th, 2019 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463116)
Are you sure he saw that fist wave?:rolleyes:




Russians wouldn't program a bot to troll this forum, their bot would troll politcal forums hoping to influence elections.



You overestimate the ability of a sports team or sports figure to control their fans. There have been killings at soccer matches, do you believe a team or player orchestrated it? People are tribal by nature, when they like a particular team, athlete/racer, many of them will start to hate the rivals. Rossi doesn't tell his fan anything, they act on their own free will.


Doubt he saw it :giggle::giggle:

In regards to the fans, only Rossi's fans can compare to fucking soccer fans & hooligans.

Its the type of fan this man attracts that are stinkers, happy to boo other riders, will never accept a wrong from him regardless of how fucked up whatever he does is & a very stinky attitude towards the others who can rival him.

You guys linked me to this VR46 forum back in the day in a joke thread that was talking about 2007.

Valebans were praising Stoner in race 1 and 2...

Then it turned into a pure shit hate fest, this is what Rossi does, he brings controversy and hate, pleeeeenty of hate.

Just the fact that you had to compare MotoGp fandom to soccer fandom to support your point of view tells what we need to know.

Keshav December 4th, 2019 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463123)
You really are stuck in 2015 aren't you? Did you just finish watching Mayweather vs Pacquiao? What about the VW emissions scandal? Kobe Bryant retired!?!!

Those who don't learn (and acknowledge) history are doomed to repeat it. Those who try to re-write it can't handle reality.

You've been around this forum long enough to know that most or all of the members are far too smart to be baffled and confused
by diversions consisting of nothing more than obvious straw man arguments. Pretending 2015 didn't happen won't change anybody's mind.

Little Walter December 4th, 2019 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 320Dave (Post 463125)
Doubt he saw it :giggle::giggle:

In regards to the fans, only Rossi's fans can compare to fucking soccer fans & hooligans.

Its the type of fan this man attracts that are stinkers, happy to boo other riders, will never accept a wrong from him regardless of how fucked up whatever he does is & a very stinky attitude towards the others who can rival him.

You guys linked me to this VR46 forum back in the day in a joke thread that was talking about 2007.

Valebans were praising Stoner in race 1 and 2...

Then it turned into a pure shit hate fest, this is what Rossi does, he brings controversy and hate, pleeeeenty of hate.

Just the fact that you had to compare MotoGp fandom to soccer fandom to support your point of view tells what we need to know.

It is not Vale so much that is responsible for the shitty segment of his fanbase. There are always in sports a type that isn't really interested in fine points and nuances of the sport. They're only interested in rallying around a perceived alpha dog, a substitute for the leader of the pack type whose mission is to dominate and kill opposition. They see all sports as metaphor for war. In real life, the lesser dogs seeing the alpha losing his mojo, run him off or just kill and eat him. Because race fans are human they have sophisticated mechanisms to fool themselves into a state of delusion to save themselves from the pain of hubris. But of course, they like to come here and bark a lot too.

michaelm December 4th, 2019 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Walter (Post 463127)
It is not Vale so much that is responsible for the shitty segment of his fanbase. There are always in sports a type that isn't really interested in fine points and nuances of the sport. They're only interested in rallying around a perceived alpha dog, a substitute for the leader of the pack type whose mission is to dominate and kill opposition. They see all sports as metaphor for war. In real life, the lesser dogs seeing the alpha losing his mojo, run him off or just kill and eat him. Because race fans are human they have sophisticated mechanisms to fool themselves into a state of delusion to save themselves from the pain of hubris. But of course, they like to come here and bark a lot too.

Sure, Valentino is probably the only gp bike rider who has ever had enough fame on the world stage to attract fans of the glory hunter variety, and I formerly blamed a fringe element among his fans for the treatment any significant rival, and even a not so significant rival in Toni Elias, copped rather than Valentino himself. Stoner’s biography which at least presumably reflects his view of matters if not necessarily truth incarnate, mainly blamed those fans rather than Rossi himself for his treatment, although he did reflect that Valentino was treated differently than other riders and was both prepared to engage in, and could get away with, behaviour/riding not an option for other riders.

It has become clear to me that he is not an innocent bystander in regard to the behaviour of his fans as I have said. I don’t think many Man United players were in the habit of encouraging soccer hooligans to riot; MV drew the soccer hooligan analogy not me btw.

Little Walter December 5th, 2019 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keshav (Post 463126)
Those who don't learn (and acknowledge) history are doomed to repeat it. Those who try to re-write it can't handle reality.

You've been around this forum long enough to know that most or all of the members are far too smart to be baffled and confused
by diversions consisting of nothing more than obvious straw man arguments. Pretending 2015 didn't happen won't change anybody's mind.

Okay okay Mrs. Lincoln, that's all very interesting, but aside from that, what did you think about the play?

povol December 5th, 2019 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto vudu (Post 463123)
You really are stuck in 2015 aren't you? Did you just finish watching Mayweather vs Pacquiao? What about the VW emissions scandal? Kobe Bryant retired!?!!

At the end of 2014, Rossi fans were tripping over themselves by the tens of millions to jump on the Marquez win wagon. They even had Rossiís approval and hey were set to cheer a winner for the next decade. Then 2015 happened and their dream was snatched from under their noses on the word of Rossi himself. He instructed them to hate Marquez and like good little sheep , they did as they were told. Iím not sure if people have been paying attention, but the younger GP crowd is Marcís. The 25 and under crowd canít remember when Rossi did anything and the 30 and under crowdís memory is getting foggy as to what this guy actually ever did. Rossiís mainstay crowd appears to be in the 35-50 age group while the older fan like myself who grew up with a sense of fair play have distanced themselves from Rossi as the facade fell, showing the world what a small little bitter man he is.

michaelm December 6th, 2019 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by povol (Post 463130)
At the end of 2014, Rossi fans were tripping over themselves by the tens of millions to jump on the Marquez win wagon. They even had Rossi’s approval and hey were set to cheer a winner for the next decade. Then 2015 happened and their dream was snatched from under their noses on the word of Rossi himself. He instructed them to hate Marquez and like good little sheep , they did as they were told. I’m not sure if people have been paying attention, but the younger GP crowd is Marc’s. The 25 and under crowd can’t remember when Rossi did anything and the 30 and under crowd’s memory is getting foggy as to what this guy actually ever did. Rossi’s mainstay crowd appears to be in the 35-50 age group while the older fan like myself who grew up with a sense of fair play have distanced themselves from Rossi as the facade fell, showing the world what a small little bitter man he is.

I agree with the thrust of what you are saying, but I don't think he is quite as bad as that, and certainly wasn't always thus. If he had quit after the 2009 title even you and I would be arguing about him vs MM with plenty of evidence for his side of the argument.

This whole quest for the 10th title he never needed (everyone recognized him as Ago's superior), it would seem while living in a bubble created by the likes of Uccio, is where he has become bitter and small. The idea that he was somehow owed that title is what puzzles me, given him being handed one would cheapen all the titles he quite legitimately won. I basically go with a previous argument of yours, that he once appeared to be above the other greats, but actually is pretty much co-equal with KRSR, Lawson, Rainey and Doohan etc. Where MM sits remains to be fully determined, but he won't be riding at age 40 one way or another.

Aw Mang December 6th, 2019 07:26 PM

Give motovudu some credits. He is still sticking around to defend his hero while other Rossi fans basically disappeared and only show up when MM crashes or end up second. Can you imagine shitting on a rider who finish second while on one of the thread, a Rossi fan basically cheered Rossi for finishing 4th or something.

michaelm December 6th, 2019 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aw Mang (Post 463132)
Give motovudu some credits. He is still sticking around to defend his hero while other Rossi fans basically disappeared and only show up when MM crashes or end up second. Can you imagine shitting on a rider who finish second while on one of the thread, a Rossi fan basically cheered Rossi for finishing 4th or something.

Sure, I too admire MV for his loyalty.

Not much point going over this old ground over and over, no-one is going to change their mind at this juncture, but I was somewhat triggered by the implication that fans other than Rossi fans were the ones with the problem with perspective.

Keshav December 7th, 2019 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelm (Post 463133)
Sure, I too admire MV for his loyalty.

Not much point going over this old ground over and over, no-one is going to change their mind at this juncture, but I was somewhat triggered by the implication that fans other than Rossi fans were the ones with the problem with perspective.

Personally - I think the Ukrainians are to blame.

misfit December 9th, 2019 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Walter (Post 463127)
It is not Vale so much that is responsible for the shitty segment of his fanbase. There are always in sports a type that isn't really interested in fine points and nuances of the sport. They're only interested in rallying around a perceived alpha dog, a substitute for the leader of the pack type whose mission is to dominate and kill opposition. They see all sports as metaphor for war. In real life, the lesser dogs seeing the alpha losing his mojo, run him off or just kill and eat him. Because race fans are human they have sophisticated mechanisms to fool themselves into a state of delusion to save themselves from the pain of hubris. But of course, they like to come here and bark a lot too.

Yep!

misfit December 9th, 2019 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelm (Post 463133)
Sure, I too admire MV for his loyalty.

Not much point going over this old ground over and over, no-one is going to change their mind at this juncture, but I was somewhat triggered by the implication that fans other than Rossi fans were the ones with the problem with perspective.

There can certainly be warped perspectives from either side. My hackles raise the more extreme the perspective.

michaelm December 9th, 2019 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misfit (Post 463136)
There can certainly be warped perspectives from either side. My hackles raise the more extreme the perspective.

What canít be questioned imo are Rossiís ability or achievements as a rider particularly at his peak, and probably even now given he is 40.

You will have to explain to me what a succession of top riders did to deserve vilification other than beat Rossi which was pretty much their job description, the major part thereof in his heyday, and how the pronouncements made in a certain pre-race press conference in Sepang can be justified.

gui22a December 11th, 2019 01:28 PM

I don't think he has worried with records.


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