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December 5th, 2019, 06:34 AM   #31
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Those who don't learn (and acknowledge) history are doomed to repeat it. Those who try to re-write it can't handle reality.

You've been around this forum long enough to know that most or all of the members are far too smart to be baffled and confused
by diversions consisting of nothing more than obvious straw man arguments. Pretending 2015 didn't happen won't change anybody's mind.
Okay okay Mrs. Lincoln, that's all very interesting, but aside from that, what did you think about the play?
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December 5th, 2019, 02:01 PM   #32
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You really are stuck in 2015 aren't you? Did you just finish watching Mayweather vs Pacquiao? What about the VW emissions scandal? Kobe Bryant retired!?!!
At the end of 2014, Rossi fans were tripping over themselves by the tens of millions to jump on the Marquez win wagon. They even had Rossiís approval and hey were set to cheer a winner for the next decade. Then 2015 happened and their dream was snatched from under their noses on the word of Rossi himself. He instructed them to hate Marquez and like good little sheep , they did as they were told. Iím not sure if people have been paying attention, but the younger GP crowd is Marcís. The 25 and under crowd canít remember when Rossi did anything and the 30 and under crowdís memory is getting foggy as to what this guy actually ever did. Rossiís mainstay crowd appears to be in the 35-50 age group while the older fan like myself who grew up with a sense of fair play have distanced themselves from Rossi as the facade fell, showing the world what a small little bitter man he is.
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December 6th, 2019, 05:20 AM   #33
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At the end of 2014, Rossi fans were tripping over themselves by the tens of millions to jump on the Marquez win wagon. They even had Rossi’s approval and hey were set to cheer a winner for the next decade. Then 2015 happened and their dream was snatched from under their noses on the word of Rossi himself. He instructed them to hate Marquez and like good little sheep , they did as they were told. I’m not sure if people have been paying attention, but the younger GP crowd is Marc’s. The 25 and under crowd can’t remember when Rossi did anything and the 30 and under crowd’s memory is getting foggy as to what this guy actually ever did. Rossi’s mainstay crowd appears to be in the 35-50 age group while the older fan like myself who grew up with a sense of fair play have distanced themselves from Rossi as the facade fell, showing the world what a small little bitter man he is.
I agree with the thrust of what you are saying, but I don't think he is quite as bad as that, and certainly wasn't always thus. If he had quit after the 2009 title even you and I would be arguing about him vs MM with plenty of evidence for his side of the argument.

This whole quest for the 10th title he never needed (everyone recognized him as Ago's superior), it would seem while living in a bubble created by the likes of Uccio, is where he has become bitter and small. The idea that he was somehow owed that title is what puzzles me, given him being handed one would cheapen all the titles he quite legitimately won. I basically go with a previous argument of yours, that he once appeared to be above the other greats, but actually is pretty much co-equal with KRSR, Lawson, Rainey and Doohan etc. Where MM sits remains to be fully determined, but he won't be riding at age 40 one way or another.
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December 6th, 2019, 08:26 PM   #34
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Give motovudu some credits. He is still sticking around to defend his hero while other Rossi fans basically disappeared and only show up when MM crashes or end up second. Can you imagine shitting on a rider who finish second while on one of the thread, a Rossi fan basically cheered Rossi for finishing 4th or something.
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December 6th, 2019, 09:11 PM   #35
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Give motovudu some credits. He is still sticking around to defend his hero while other Rossi fans basically disappeared and only show up when MM crashes or end up second. Can you imagine shitting on a rider who finish second while on one of the thread, a Rossi fan basically cheered Rossi for finishing 4th or something.
Sure, I too admire MV for his loyalty.

Not much point going over this old ground over and over, no-one is going to change their mind at this juncture, but I was somewhat triggered by the implication that fans other than Rossi fans were the ones with the problem with perspective.

Last edited by michaelm; December 6th, 2019 at 09:16 PM.
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December 7th, 2019, 05:35 AM   #36
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Sure, I too admire MV for his loyalty.

Not much point going over this old ground over and over, no-one is going to change their mind at this juncture, but I was somewhat triggered by the implication that fans other than Rossi fans were the ones with the problem with perspective.
Personally - I think the Ukrainians are to blame.
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December 9th, 2019, 10:46 AM   #37
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It is not Vale so much that is responsible for the shitty segment of his fanbase. There are always in sports a type that isn't really interested in fine points and nuances of the sport. They're only interested in rallying around a perceived alpha dog, a substitute for the leader of the pack type whose mission is to dominate and kill opposition. They see all sports as metaphor for war. In real life, the lesser dogs seeing the alpha losing his mojo, run him off or just kill and eat him. Because race fans are human they have sophisticated mechanisms to fool themselves into a state of delusion to save themselves from the pain of hubris. But of course, they like to come here and bark a lot too.
Yep!
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December 9th, 2019, 10:52 AM   #38
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Sure, I too admire MV for his loyalty.

Not much point going over this old ground over and over, no-one is going to change their mind at this juncture, but I was somewhat triggered by the implication that fans other than Rossi fans were the ones with the problem with perspective.
There can certainly be warped perspectives from either side. My hackles raise the more extreme the perspective.
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December 9th, 2019, 11:25 AM   #39
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There can certainly be warped perspectives from either side. My hackles raise the more extreme the perspective.
What canít be questioned imo are Rossiís ability or achievements as a rider particularly at his peak, and probably even now given he is 40.

You will have to explain to me what a succession of top riders did to deserve vilification other than beat Rossi which was pretty much their job description, the major part thereof in his heyday, and how the pronouncements made in a certain pre-race press conference in Sepang can be justified.
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December 11th, 2019, 02:28 PM   #40
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I don't think he has worried with records.
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