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December 4th, 2019, 12:26 AM   #21
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You are the one generalising matters, I am of the opinion that Rossi specifically has orchestrated campaigns of vilification against a number of his rivals in the sport of gp bike racing, hence my dislike for/disapproval of him. Prior to 2015 I blamed a fringe element among his fandom rather than Rossi himself, but the events of late season 2015 made it very clear he was fully complicit. Marquez actually called him on it, then used it as extra motivation rather than being dismayed as were the likes of Biaggi, Gibernau and Stoner, one of the reasons I came to admire him after initially belonging to the ‘murder marc’ school of
thought.
How did Rossi orchestrate compaigns of vilification? His fans will typically dislike his rivals by default just like fans of Rossi's rivals dislike him. The only difference is Rossi has the most fans.
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December 4th, 2019, 01:03 AM   #22
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Y...I am of the opinion that Rossi specifically has orchestrated campaigns of vilification against a number of his rivals in the sport of gp bike racing, hence my dislike for/disapproval of him. Prior to 2015 I blamed a fringe element among his fandom rather than Rossi himself, but the events of late season 2015 made it very clear he was fully complicit. Marquez actually called him on it, then used it as extra motivation rather than being dismayed as were the likes of Biaggi, Gibernau and Stoner, one of the reasons I came to admire him after initially belonging to the Ďmurder marcí school of
thought.
100% agree and same with 2015
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December 4th, 2019, 01:14 AM   #23
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How did Rossi orchestrate compaigns of vilification? His fans will typically dislike his rivals by default just like fans of Rossi's rivals dislike him. The only difference is Rossi has the most fans.
Imo only (of course) you are being disingenuous.

He clearly demonstrated he was in control of much of this in 2015, which is when my attitude changed. After PI 2015 his fans were initially targeting Iannone, which he totally canned with a sentence or two, while inflaming them against MM in that infamous pre-Sepang 2015 press conference with his ridiculous allegation that MM had tanked a race that he actually won, in the process depriving Lorenzo of 5 points, to aid Lorenzo against him. This would have been fairly silly imo if he had concluded this on his own, but might have had more credibility given he is a very great rider with more experience and knowledge than any observer, but it later emerged that it was Uccio who came up with the PI conspiracy theory as said motogp maven subsequently proudly announced. For me this brought the previous anti-Biaggi and anti-Stoner stuff, the Gibernau curse etc etc into sharp relief; what were the fabled mind games if not significantly about employing his massive fan base against his rivals?. MM actually directly called him on it as I have said.

Last edited by michaelm; December 4th, 2019 at 02:00 AM.
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December 4th, 2019, 01:25 AM   #24
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100% agree and same with 2015
I didnít cast Jorge as one of those dismayed as I donít believe he is particularly easily dismayed, but I do think as with Stonerís early retirement that things became so poisonous for him that his career ended less gloriously than he deserved. Jorge clearly wanted to be a Yamaha guy for life but that option became untenable for him despite winning 3 titles for them, like Roberts, Lawson and Rainey, in his case Yamahaís last 3 titles.
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December 4th, 2019, 01:29 AM   #25
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Imo only (of course) you are being disingenuous.

He clearly demonstrated he was in control of much of this in 2015, which is when my attitude changed. After PI 2015 his fans were initially targeting Iannone, which he totally canned with a sentence or two, while inflaming them against MM in that notorious pre-Sepang 2015 press conference with his ridiculous allegation that MM had tanked a race that he actually won, in the process depriving Lorenzo of 5 points, to aid Lorenzo against him. This would have been fairly silly no if he had come up with said conspiracy theory on his own, but might have had more credibility if he had concluded this on his own given he is a very great rider with more experience and knowledge than any observer, but it later emerged that it was Uccio who came up with the PI conspiracy theory as said motogp maven subsequently proudly announced. For me this brought the previous anti-Biaggi and anti-Stoner stuff, the Gibernau curse etc etc into sharp relief; what were the fabled mind games if not significantly about employing his massive fan base against his rivals?.. MM actually directly called him on it as I have said.
You really are stuck in 2015 aren't you? Did you just finish watching Mayweather vs Pacquiao? What about the VW emissions scandal? Kobe Bryant retired!?!!

Last edited by moto vudu; December 4th, 2019 at 01:31 AM.
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December 4th, 2019, 02:11 AM   #26
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You really are stuck in 2015 aren't you? Did you just finish watching Mayweather vs Pacquiao? What about the VW emissions scandal? Kobe Bryant retired!?!!
I am away from home working at the moment, but did watch a replay of the recent Lakers vs Mavs game in my motel room last night and was deeply impressed by Doncic.

If you are arguing the point you are arguing it is rather convenient for you to want me to forget 2015. I am prepared to forget that season when Valentino does, and he resiles not from his stance on the events of that year.
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December 4th, 2019, 06:33 AM   #27
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Are you sure he saw that fist wave?




Russians wouldn't program a bot to troll this forum, their bot would troll politcal forums hoping to influence elections.



You overestimate the ability of a sports team or sports figure to control their fans. There have been killings at soccer matches, do you believe a team or player orchestrated it? People are tribal by nature, when they like a particular team, athlete/racer, many of them will start to hate the rivals. Rossi doesn't tell his fan anything, they act on their own free will.

Doubt he saw it

In regards to the fans, only Rossi's fans can compare to fucking soccer fans & hooligans.

Its the type of fan this man attracts that are stinkers, happy to boo other riders, will never accept a wrong from him regardless of how fucked up whatever he does is & a very stinky attitude towards the others who can rival him.

You guys linked me to this VR46 forum back in the day in a joke thread that was talking about 2007.

Valebans were praising Stoner in race 1 and 2...

Then it turned into a pure shit hate fest, this is what Rossi does, he brings controversy and hate, pleeeeenty of hate.

Just the fact that you had to compare MotoGp fandom to soccer fandom to support your point of view tells what we need to know.
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December 4th, 2019, 06:36 AM   #28
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You really are stuck in 2015 aren't you? Did you just finish watching Mayweather vs Pacquiao? What about the VW emissions scandal? Kobe Bryant retired!?!!
Those who don't learn (and acknowledge) history are doomed to repeat it. Those who try to re-write it can't handle reality.

You've been around this forum long enough to know that most or all of the members are far too smart to be baffled and confused
by diversions consisting of nothing more than obvious straw man arguments. Pretending 2015 didn't happen won't change anybody's mind.

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December 4th, 2019, 04:02 PM   #29
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Doubt he saw it

In regards to the fans, only Rossi's fans can compare to fucking soccer fans & hooligans.

Its the type of fan this man attracts that are stinkers, happy to boo other riders, will never accept a wrong from him regardless of how fucked up whatever he does is & a very stinky attitude towards the others who can rival him.

You guys linked me to this VR46 forum back in the day in a joke thread that was talking about 2007.

Valebans were praising Stoner in race 1 and 2...

Then it turned into a pure shit hate fest, this is what Rossi does, he brings controversy and hate, pleeeeenty of hate.

Just the fact that you had to compare MotoGp fandom to soccer fandom to support your point of view tells what we need to know.
It is not Vale so much that is responsible for the shitty segment of his fanbase. There are always in sports a type that isn't really interested in fine points and nuances of the sport. They're only interested in rallying around a perceived alpha dog, a substitute for the leader of the pack type whose mission is to dominate and kill opposition. They see all sports as metaphor for war. In real life, the lesser dogs seeing the alpha losing his mojo, run him off or just kill and eat him. Because race fans are human they have sophisticated mechanisms to fool themselves into a state of delusion to save themselves from the pain of hubris. But of course, they like to come here and bark a lot too.
Keshav and misfit like this.
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December 4th, 2019, 04:40 PM   #30
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It is not Vale so much that is responsible for the shitty segment of his fanbase. There are always in sports a type that isn't really interested in fine points and nuances of the sport. They're only interested in rallying around a perceived alpha dog, a substitute for the leader of the pack type whose mission is to dominate and kill opposition. They see all sports as metaphor for war. In real life, the lesser dogs seeing the alpha losing his mojo, run him off or just kill and eat him. Because race fans are human they have sophisticated mechanisms to fool themselves into a state of delusion to save themselves from the pain of hubris. But of course, they like to come here and bark a lot too.
Sure, Valentino is probably the only gp bike rider who has ever had enough fame on the world stage to attract fans of the glory hunter variety, and I formerly blamed a fringe element among his fans for the treatment any significant rival, and even a not so significant rival in Toni Elias, copped rather than Valentino himself. Stoner’s biography which at least presumably reflects his view of matters if not necessarily truth incarnate, mainly blamed those fans rather than Rossi himself for his treatment, although he did reflect that Valentino was treated differently than other riders and was both prepared to engage in, and could get away with, behaviour/riding not an option for other riders.

It has become clear to me that he is not an innocent bystander in regard to the behaviour of his fans as I have said. I don’t think many Man United players were in the habit of encouraging soccer hooligans to riot; MV drew the soccer hooligan analogy not me btw.

Last edited by michaelm; December 4th, 2019 at 05:21 PM.
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