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October 4th, 2019, 05:04 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post
I'm actually seeing a reflection in that another cult has developed as it inevitably does and in this case, it's the anti-Rossi cult. It's a reflection of the the pro-Rossi blind fandom and in said fashion one can't seem to get any sense in them either. Both sides with the same name calling antics etc. Both rabid in their views. Both unpleasant ...
Just as well we have an observer from Olympian heights such as you to educate us then.

I have no problem with how Rossi is comporting himself currently, nor with acknowledging his greatness. I don’t even think these latter years will be remembered much or affect his standing in retirement, Michael Jordan is not remembered as a Washington Wizards player.

What is there to say about MM now that he has developed some concern for the safety of other riders?. It is hard for MM fans to hate his opposition given he effectively doesn’t have any, except his bike and the track as FP2 illustrated. His crash does demonstrate how extraordinary it is that Rossi is still out there in one piece riding competitively at age 41 or whatever, and that it is still not a given MM will totally eclipse all Rossi’s records.

I think you will find most of the anti-Rossi sentiment is from fans of other riders who got short shrift when they competed against Rossi with any degree of success. When he was doing what MM is doing now he was universally acknowledged and there was little or no negative sentiment against him from anyone.
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Last edited by michaelm; October 5th, 2019 at 07:04 AM.
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October 5th, 2019, 06:15 AM   #22
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Why everybody expects pro- or anti- sentiment? I have no respect for this individual. That's it. No pro or anti. I've had executive jobs for decades, I've learned from experience unethical people do not deserve respect and if you give them a second chance then you are just deceiving yourself. Say you have a greatest bike but the tire is flat. Can't ride it! Same with sportsmen (or people in general), you may have greatest achievements but if you have displayed unsportsmanlike behavior then you are a big zero for me.
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October 5th, 2019, 07:03 AM   #23
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Why everybody expects pro- or anti- sentiment? I have no respect for this individual. That's it. No pro or anti. I've had executive jobs for decades, I've learned from experience unethical people do not deserve respect and if you give them a second chance then you are just deceiving yourself. Say you have a greatest bike but the tire is flat. Can't ride it! Same with sportsmen (or people in general), you may have greatest achievements but if you have displayed unsportsmanlike behavior then you are a big zero for me.
You just don't get it do you?. According to Misfit disliking Rossi is a sign you don't have his intelligence, and his perspective, a perspective several intellectual planes above/removed from we more mundane followers of the sport.
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October 5th, 2019, 08:34 AM   #24
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You just don't get it do you?. According to Misfit disliking Rossi is a sign you don't have his intelligence, and his perspective, a perspective several intellectual planes above/removed from we more mundane followers of the sport.
Oh dear.... looks like I offended you.
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October 5th, 2019, 09:01 AM   #25
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Oh dear.... looks like I offended you.
Problem with you is you're too darn tolerant of other people's intolerance.
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October 5th, 2019, 05:55 PM   #26
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Oh dear.... looks like I offended you.
It would take a little more than inane cod psychology to genuinely offend me, and your apparent assumptions that such cod psychology has any currency and that you have a nuanced view of the sport/amazing insight ahead of others are amusing rather than offensive.

People simply dislike Rossi just as you do Lorenzo. If this extends to denigrating his great achievements in his gp bike racing career then that is unreasonable, otherwise it is a personal opinion which requires no psychoanalysis. No-one had a problem with Rossi in his pomp, the likes of Povol rated him ahead of the great golden age American riders he had admired just as I rated him ahead of Doohan. I won't deny some schadenfreude during his Ducati adventure, but always knew that bike was a pig.

The problem for we anti-Rossi cultists was how unpleasant he and his fans made the sport for his competitors, some of whom approached being all time greats themselves, by means other than him beating them on track, with the level of vilification seemingly increasing with increasing competitiveness against Valentino. I, like Povol, blamed an unhinged element among Rossi fandom rather than Rossi himself prior to 2015, but events in that year demonstrated that he was fully complicit. A little play acting to create a heroes and villains narrative is fine with me if not to my particular taste, but it fairly clearly went way beyond that for Valentino.
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Last edited by michaelm; October 6th, 2019 at 12:43 AM.
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October 6th, 2019, 02:11 AM   #27
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Ah fuck it.

Try to stay away from many of the Rossi threads as I am someone who has never been a fan of the rider or the personality and have said so many times, copped abuse and in some social circles even been 'threatened' because of it but here goes.

Now, I will not attempt to denigrate his results as irrespective of whether he had better equipment, more mediocre opposition or any advantages the fact remains that he still has to finish the race in front of others to get the result ........... do I think he has had advantages - hell yes - but as I have said many many times, ALL of these guys want an advantage to make their job easier, he got it and used it and then was allowed to grow it.

Now, so many of us whinge and whine about the impacts and the favouritism I mention above but we also do not credit what he has bought to the sport.

Remove results but by his manufacturing the personality of a clown or a joking, always smiling and approachable, good for a laugh and only having fun type of rider he built an empire. That empire got more coverage which bought more fans and yes, increased his power in the sport via DORNA but it also attracted many new fans and businesses that were not previously involved.

These fans and businesses bought even more fans to the sport and the sport grew.

It now gets coverage in mainstream news in Australia as an example and certainly whilst Wayne Gardner, Mick Doohan and Casey Stoner all got news coverage, when they were not newsworthy then it was Rossi. This was new as in Australia motorcycle Racing is the poorest cousin of the local club lawn bowls tournaments and gets no coverage and/or money, yet with Rossi's mention we got coverage.

On top of this, he is putting back to the sport and whilst yes it may be somewhat selfishly as he wishes to remain involved with the sport for what I believe are egotistical reasons the fact is he is using his money and influence to develop and grow the sport further. How the F can we be critical of that?

Without Rossi we would not have had riders needing to step up as so many have to challenge him and then beat him, all of these are riders we marvel at up to and including the freak of today that is Marquez/ Sure not all of these riders started the sport because of Rossi but many coming through would have as they idolised him and in years ahead we will be thanking his influence for these riders .

Look, for me I genuinely do not like the cult of personality and this is what we had with Rossi (and have with other riders) and for mine much of the yellow mass has disappeared so things are improving, but when we look at the dark side we also need to look at the light of what he has bought to the sport. Absolutely the growth is not all down to him by any means but the fact that he was able to get mainstream media coverage in countries where there was little or no coverage previously as well as use that personality to his advantages in business terms, should not be overlooked.

Sure, do not acknowledge all that he has done as positive as I will not, but credit where due.
Yes sure I do acknowledge he pretty much made the Sport PPV all over the world.

& no i do not appreciate it.

I have watched for free in many countries, all of them are now PPV except for Aus having ONE give the MotoGP race and that is it.
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October 6th, 2019, 02:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Just as well we have an observer from Olympian heights such as you to educate us then.

I have no problem with how Rossi is comporting himself currently, nor with acknowledging his greatness. I donít even think these latter years will be remembered much or affect his standing in retirement, Michael Jordan is not remembered as a Washington Wizards player.

What is there to say about MM now that he has developed some concern for the safety of other riders?. It is hard for MM fans to hate his opposition given he effectively doesnít have any, except his bike and the track as FP2 illustrated. His crash does demonstrate how extraordinary it is that Rossi is still out there in one piece riding competitively at age 41 or whatever, and that it is still not a given MM will totally eclipse all Rossiís records.

I think you will find most of the anti-Rossi sentiment is from fans of other riders who got short shrift when they competed against Rossi with any degree of success. When he was doing what MM is doing now he was universally acknowledged and there was little or no negative sentiment against him from anyone.

I hated his effin guts, however nobody listened to me.

Or they did and looked smug/laughed away.
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October 7th, 2019, 05:26 AM   #29
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I have Rose colored glasses on when it comes to Rossi. Although I don't like everything he's done, I do understand the contempt he sometimes has for other riders. He comes from the mold that to beat your competition you must take a dislike to them. Having been a competitor for more years than I care to admit I had the same disdain for many of the people I raced against. Large egos have trouble coexisting.
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October 7th, 2019, 06:47 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingjr View Post
I have Rose colored glasses on when it comes to Rossi. Although I don't like everything he's done, I do understand the contempt he sometimes has for other riders. He comes from the mold that to beat your competition you must take a dislike to them. Having been a competitor for more years than I care to admit I had the same disdain for many of the people I raced against. Large egos have trouble coexisting.
You'll find there are more than a few ex-racers who drop in here from time to time; myself included. Not feeling chummy with your competitors is not the issue. Those who dislike Rossi do so because he has spent so much energy trying to beat his competition via the use of his influence on ruling bodies to create unfair advantages for himself, by supporting hateful behavior by his fans toward competitors in order to discourage them, and just generally being a self-entitled jerk. Races should be won on the track, not manipulated in back rooms or by proxy hate campaigns - all of which come under the umbrella of poor sportsmanship.

Kenny Roberts, Freddie Spencer, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz et al; did their fighting where it really counts; on the track.
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