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September 17th, 2019, 10:34 AM   #11
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[QUOTE=moto vudu;462255]Ducati didn't fire him, he quit Ducati.[/QUOTE

Who said otherwise?
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September 17th, 2019, 10:38 AM   #12
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[QUOTE=Keshav;462256]
Quote:
Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Ducati didn't fire him, he quit Ducati.[/QUOTE

Who said otherwise?
You said the Repsol was the only option open to him.
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September 17th, 2019, 10:38 AM   #13
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Word was that although Gigi was very pro Lorenzo, the other powers that be were pushing for his dismissal.
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September 17th, 2019, 10:47 AM   #14
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[QUOTE=moto vudu;462257]
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post

You said the Repsol was the only option open to him.
Do I really have to spell out everything for you? Only option after leaving Ducati. This whole thread has centered on his situation post-Ducati. When he was leaving Yamaha he'd have had more options, but he went where the money was.

If you weren't champing at the bit all the time, waiting to pounce on something at which you could tag somebody with a gotcha, you might actually comprehend the discussion.

Last edited by Keshav; September 17th, 2019 at 10:53 AM.
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September 17th, 2019, 11:12 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=Keshav;462259]
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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post

Do I really have to spell out everything for you? Only option after leaving Ducati. This whole thread has centered on his situation post-Ducati. When he was leaving Yamaha he'd have had more options, but he went where the money was.

If you weren't champing at the bit all the time, waiting to pounce on something at which you could tag somebody with a gotcha, you might actually comprehend the discussion.
No one is talking about him leaving Yamaha. You initially made a post to make it sound like Jorge ending up on the Repsol was pretty much beyond his control. That's not true, he called it quits at Ducati to go to Repsol, he was 100% in control of his career direction. I agree with you that it sucks to see him struggling when he should be competing for podiums, but I'm not going to act like he was forced into the Repsol garage. He should've kept his ass at Ducati and he would be in a better situation. Oh well, we live with the choices we make.

Last edited by moto vudu; September 17th, 2019 at 11:15 AM.
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September 17th, 2019, 11:30 AM   #16
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[QUOTE=moto vudu;462260]
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post

No one is talking about him leaving Yamaha. You initially made a post to make it sound like Jorge ending up on the Repsol was pretty much beyond his control. That's not true, he called it quits at Ducati to go to Repsol, he was 100% in control of his career direction. I agree with you that it sucks to see him struggling when he should be competing for podiums, but I'm not going to act like he was forced into the Repsol garage. He should've kept his ass at Ducati and he would be in a better situation. Oh well, we live with the choices we make.
You are determined to argue against thing neither said nor implied. The first post in the thread makes the point that Ducati didn't try very hard to keep Lorenzo on the team. Their disappointment in his efforts and his lack of team spirit was pretty clear.

All of us Monday morning quarterbacks can now say in retrospect that he should have stayed, but at the time he made the decision to look for a better fit, the consensus was it wasn't going to work out. It was (to him at least) an untenable situation, where there was bad blood between him and Dovi and he hadn't any faith that Ducati was capable of making the bike more suited to his riding style. Gigi was pushing for the factory to back Lorenzo and the factory said, no, we're backing Dovi and clearly that wasn't acceptable for Lorenzo. The more you think on it, the more it becomes clear that Lorenzo came on the team expecting his pal Gigi to propel him to top rider status and that didn't pan out.

Last edited by Keshav; September 17th, 2019 at 11:32 AM.
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September 17th, 2019, 11:42 AM   #17
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Ducati was not going to give Jorge another big contract, and I am surprised Honda gave him as much as they did. in some ways I think he was in it for the money.

With Zarco, KTM gave him big money thinking they had a bike that was ready to compete for podiums, in reality that bike was still very much a work in progress. I think that was obvious to both Zarco and KTM from the first tests he had on the bike.
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September 17th, 2019, 02:24 PM   #18
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Ducati was not going to give Jorge another big contract, and I am surprised Honda gave him as much as they did. in some ways I think he was in it for the money.

With Zarco, KTM gave him big money thinking they had a bike that was ready to compete for podiums, in reality that bike was still very much a work in progress. I think that was obvious to both Zarco and KTM from the first tests he had on the bike.
Sure, no-one should underestimate the money factor, although I think Jorge was on the outer with Ducati in general when he made his decision to leave; continuing to win races would likely have healed most ills, but the wins he did have probably came after the die was cast.

It is also a tough business cf Stoner being persona non grata at Ducati 3 years after winning their only title and Eddie Lawson ending up at Cagiva a couple of years after winning a 3rd title for Yamaha.

Pretty much everyone thought both Ducati and Honda were bad moves for Jorge. It is hard to know whether he might have finally got it together on the Honda as he did on the Ducati, he showed some signs of doing so before injury, but I think he is done for this year at least and maybe for good, he is no spring chicken now and repetitive injuries catch up with riders at his current stage in his career.

Jorge and Zarco both seem to have been influenced by not wanting to be on the same team as Rossi, Jorge with some cause imo; I don’t know if Jorge could have toughed it out although I think he got equal equipment if not his preferred tyre in 2016. I hope Zarco got plenty of Red Bull money, because KTM has been disastrous for him, and he won’t have Jorge’s 3 titles to console him.
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September 17th, 2019, 03:27 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=Keshav;462261]
Quote:
Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post

You are determined to argue against thing neither said nor implied. The first post in the thread makes the point that Ducati didn't try very hard to keep Lorenzo on the team. Their disappointment in his efforts and his lack of team spirit was pretty clear.

All of us Monday morning quarterbacks can now say in retrospect that he should have stayed, but at the time he made the decision to look for a better fit, the consensus was it wasn't going to work out. It was (to him at least) an untenable situation, where there was bad blood between him and Dovi and he hadn't any faith that Ducati was capable of making the bike more suited to his riding style. Gigi was pushing for the factory to back Lorenzo and the factory said, no, we're backing Dovi and clearly that wasn't acceptable for Lorenzo. The more you think on it, the more it becomes clear that Lorenzo came on the team expecting his pal Gigi to propel him to top rider status and that didn't pan out.
He started with top rider status, there was debate as to whether iannone or Dovi should be his team mate if you recall. Dovi greatly out performed him in 2017 pure and simple.

The only thing, and reportedly a cause of some of the rancour between him and Dovi, was whether he was a more significant contributor than Dovi to the quality of the bike with Gigi apparently on the Jorge side of the argument. At the moment there seems to be an impasse between Dovi and Gigi with Dovi back to the old make the Ducati into a Yamaha thing and Gigi apparently of the opinion this can’t be done and/or it being a bad idea to attempt this.

In the end if Jorge has made 2 ego driven major career decisions that is on him, fan of his though I am, and similarly if his decisions were mainly on the basis of the money on offer. Rossi didn’t repeat his Ducati error. It is also likely once it became obvious Rossi was on the decline Yamaha would have backed Jorge who did after all win them their last 3 titles, with anything held against him over 2015 forgotten.
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Last edited by michaelm; September 17th, 2019 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Typo
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September 17th, 2019, 04:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
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It is also likely once it became obvious Rossi was on the decline Yamaha would have backed Jorge who did after all win them their last 3 titles, with anything held against him over 2015 forgotten.
Both Viñales and Rossi had renewed their contracts when Lorenzo wanted out of Ducati, which is why the media at the time rumored about Jorge riding for the eventual Petronas team. Also Mir had already agreed with Suzuki, that would've been a great pairing. It's a shame contracts get signed so early in MGP.
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