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August 27th, 2019, 06:58 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Prim may be a fair cop.

As for the rest I perhaps expected better from you as an opponent of the several years of Stoner bashing, justified by the proponents of same on the basis of his ďdifficultĒ personality.

I have never kicked any rider when he was down, including Cal Crutchlow of whom I am also a fan, and he is a world super sport champion rather than the winner of 3 premier class and 2 250 gp world titles. I actually fell out with the aforementioned Roger, something i regret because I suspect we would have related well had we met in person, over a point of logic ie that calling Stoner the same as an unknown cart racer in a video who abreacted to being taken out in a cart race was legitimate criticism of Stoner, perhaps similar to calling Jorge similar to Michael Jackson, and to some extent helped precipitate Jumkieís departure by deciding his friend JK was for the main part a troll. Jumkie btw was a Dovi fan who hated Jorge personally probably for similar reasons to those which provoked your distaste but didnít denigrate his actual capability as a riderr as far as I can recall.
The Stoner bashing by those idiots is what made me leave this place.

Also Stoner coming to like & respect Lorenzo is what brought him over for me too as I mentioned earlier.
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August 27th, 2019, 07:38 AM   #92
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The Stoner bashing by those idiots is what made me leave this place.

Also Stoner coming to like & respect Lorenzo is what brought him over for me too as I mentioned earlier.
Thanks for saying that. I love lots of good-natured ribbing and poking of folks and illustrating their foibles - as long as it's genuinely in the spirit of cordial larking (there's a phrase I bet you never thought you'd hear on this forum) - but there was way too much macho-ass, corrosive, mean-spirited taunting intended to alienate members who didn't follow the same playbook; and the guys who did it always dishonestly tried to brush it off as "banter". And of course it became like a magnet for the most the virulent trolls who kept up the toxic flame wars that engulfed so many threads. Every so often I get the impulse to text Jum or Rog and say, hey Compa why the hell don't you come on back? And then sanity returns - and I put the phone away.

I will say that I think a lot of folks left the forum simply because they got bored or just moved on. People had kids who became their world. Etc etc etc. I have to admit I do miss the variety of big personalities: Pidgeon, Lexicon, Curve, Little Sparrows, Dr. No, Gator Duc, Bass Pete, Arribiatta, Drill, Half Pint, The Phorest, Rising Sun, Mr. Squiggle, Mr. Shupe, Nuts, Kropo, Austin etc. who were a congenial lot and could passionately defend an idea without resorting to personal attacks.

As to the "Phony Beatlemania" pining for the old Power-slide; to me it's like old hippies still pining for The Summer Of Love, portrayed in the media as sweet and innocent and full of hope, but in reality, those who who lived through it out in San Francisco - with 20/20 hindsight will tell you that it was largely deluded dreamers living in a drug-fueled haze spouting Kahlil Gibran, panhandling for Grateful Dead tickets, alternately eating out of restaurant dumpsters or having "brown rice, seaweed and a dirty hotdog" served up by The Hog Farm free kitchen, stealing from mom's purse to pay for their meth and constant visits to the free clinic for syphilis and gonorrhea testing.

Last edited by Keshav; August 28th, 2019 at 12:19 PM.
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August 28th, 2019, 01:43 AM   #93
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I spent years on here arguing for Stonerís quality as a rider in the face of his personality being derided by Rossi fans, they being very much in the majority back in the day on here of course, which seemed to extend to the quality of his riding not being recognised, and consider myself to be in fact practising logical consistency in defending Jorge similarly.

I obviously didnít express myself sufficiently clearly, but everyone or anyone being a fan of Jorgeís is a different matter which I absolutely donít require. My issue was with his quality as a rider being as I saw it derided, in what looks very much like the twilight of his career, particularly when injured, which I believe he doesnít deserve given his achievements and his unrelenting toughness and effort over his career. I think Casey came to admire him despite initially not being a fan for the same reason I did, that he absolutely didnít quit when defending his title against Casey in 2011, losing the finger or whatever searching for something in practice with which he could beat Casey despite his cause being well nigh hopeless, and as I believe was the case with Stoner was sad he didnít get to go down fighting in the actual race. He also since Motegi 2010 has not to my knowledge asked for or expected any concessions from anyone, as opposed to one former team-mate, and has been a fair racer imo, in the premier class at least.
I see what youíre getting at. My personal appeal to sport of any kind, is the human factor. There are many aspects to that human factor, technical ability being only one of them. I personally appreciate the different riders/drivers in a wholistic way and do get bored very easily when watching a race involving riders/drivers I know nothing about. The competition is so much more exciting for me anyway, when I know the riders/drivers involved well. The more I know them, the better the entertainment value for me. Rivalries can be seriously entertaining, but without knowledge of the buildup etc., one wouldnít be even aware that a rivalry exists.

In the end, I could easily favour a rider over another because of the overall impression I have of each of them. Itís a combination of their personality, technical ability and racing style/behaviour.

I personally donít have an intense dislike for any of the riders. There are however some that I like and cheer for, others Iím indifferent about, and others I donít really care for.

I therefore can easily understand a fan of the sport not liking Stoner and not cheering for him despite Stonerís great technical ability and clean racing. Nothing wrong with that. It matters not why they donít care for him on a personal level. It would seem to me that you have a problem with this and that the only metric should be the riderís abilities??
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August 28th, 2019, 05:19 AM   #94
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I see what youíre getting at. My personal appeal to sport of any kind, is the human factor. There are many aspects to that human factor, technical ability being only one of them. I personally appreciate the different riders/drivers in a wholistic way and do get bored very easily when watching a race involving riders/drivers I know nothing about. The competition is so much more exciting for me anyway, when I know the riders/drivers involved well. The more I know them, the better the entertainment value for me. Rivalries can be seriously entertaining, but without knowledge of the buildup etc., one wouldnít be even aware that a rivalry exists.

In the end, I could easily favour a rider over another because of the overall impression I have of each of them. Itís a combination of their personality, technical ability and racing style/behaviour.

I personally donít have an intense dislike for any of the riders. There are however some that I like and cheer for, others Iím indifferent about, and others I donít really care for.

I therefore can easily understand a fan of the sport not liking Stoner and not cheering for him despite Stonerís great technical ability and clean racing. Nothing wrong with that. It matters not why they donít care for him on a personal level. It would seem to me that you have a problem with this and that the only metric should be the riderís abilities??



No there isn't anything wrong with that.

However when Hordes of Fans of the same guy (how does it always come down to him when its a personality controversy) get together and practically bury a Rider in insults and mockery to the point of Ridiculing the Rider and his fans,

One can end up being pretty salty with the opinion of Others on a rider he likes personally, both be Riding or persona or both.

It is called getting burnt over time.
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August 28th, 2019, 06:40 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post
I see what youíre getting at. My personal appeal to sport of any kind, is the human factor. There are many aspects to that human factor, technical ability being only one of them. I personally appreciate the different riders/drivers in a wholistic way and do get bored very easily when watching a race involving riders/drivers I know nothing about. The competition is so much more exciting for me anyway, when I know the riders/drivers involved well. The more I know them, the better the entertainment value for me. Rivalries can be seriously entertaining, but without knowledge of the buildup etc., one wouldnít be even aware that a rivalry exists.

In the end, I could easily favour a rider over another because of the overall impression I have of each of them. Itís a combination of their personality, technical ability and racing style/behaviour.

I personally donít have an intense dislike for any of the riders. There are however some that I like and cheer for, others Iím indifferent about, and others I donít really care for.

I therefore can easily understand a fan of the sport not liking Stoner and not cheering for him despite Stonerís great technical ability and clean racing. Nothing wrong with that. It matters not why they donít care for him on a personal level. It would seem to me that you have a problem with this and that the only metric should be the riderís abilities??
No, I don't see how I can be more clear, dislike Stoner or Lorenzo or whomever all you like, my issue is with extending this to deriding their quality or achievements as a rider, which absolutely was done to Stoner and which Keshav was tending towards in regard to Lorenzo imo.
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August 28th, 2019, 06:41 AM   #96
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Double. Site running at a glacial pace.

Last edited by michaelm; August 28th, 2019 at 06:48 AM.
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August 28th, 2019, 11:48 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by 320Dave View Post
No there isn't anything wrong with that.

However when Hordes of Fans of the same guy (how does it always come down to him when its a personality controversy) get together and practically bury a Rider in insults and mockery to the point of Ridiculing the Rider and his fans,

One can end up being pretty salty with the opinion of Others on a rider he likes personally, both be Riding or persona or both.

It is called getting burnt over time.
Yes, I've been detecting a high degree of sensitivity and as per usual, as with Lorenzo and his demeanour on many an occasion, there's history to account for it. However, it doesn't make it any less agreeable. I'm late to the scene and have watched MotoGP for many years without browsing too many fan-sites for the very reason you've just given an example.

I joined this forum seriously hoping discussions will not descend into rabid insulting and vitriol towards riders, or other forum members. If it does, and the signal to noise(vitriol) ratio gets too much for me, I'll move on.
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August 28th, 2019, 12:21 PM   #98
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Double. Site running at a glacial pace.
The delete button is your friend.
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August 28th, 2019, 12:26 PM   #99
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Yes, I've been detecting a high degree of sensitivity and as per usual, as with Lorenzo and his demeanour on many an occasion, there's history to account for it. However, it doesn't make it any less agreeable. I'm late to the scene and have watched MotoGP for many years without browsing too many fan-sites for the very reason you've just given an example.

I joined this forum seriously hoping discussions will not descend into rabid insulting and vitriol towards riders, or other forum members. If it does, and the signal to noise(vitriol) ratio gets too much for me, I'll move on.
Stick around Mate. It comes in waves at times. I use to get caught up in it, but the main troll faction have largely fucked off, especially since Rossi stopped getting on the podium.

This forum can be really great again as long as serious fans resist feeding the trolls. The ignore button works quite well.
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