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July 27th, 2019, 12:39 PM   #11
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As mentioned before, Dovi wanted Jorge gone as soon as he started doing well.
If Dovi can’t try to win the title without his team mate being submissive and helping him, it’s a sad state of affairs, MotoGP is not f1.
I hope Danilllo is let off the leash next year, it’s unreasonable to expect him to play wing man when on occasion he’s the faster rider. Just loved seeing him win at Mugello, didn’t enjoy seeing Dovi telling his interviewer he wasn’t happy as his team mate was too aggressive on that last lap overtake.
It’s called the MotoGP Riders World Championship.
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July 27th, 2019, 06:35 PM   #12
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I took the attitude shift as happening when Lorenzo didn't obey team rules, it kind of shows he's not really a team player.
You should provide us with your list of premier class world champions happy to follow team orders, I can’t recall many off hand, not even Alex Criville.

I am a Jorge fan, but stopped watching the race in question because there was no good outcome for me, even Jorge winning if doing so harmed Dovi’s theoretical title chances. Dovi’s chances were mainly theoretical, and pretty much required MM to crash (I can’t recall if both Dovi and Jorge beating him would have helped, but if so Jorge needed to stay as close to MM as possible rather than concede positions). I consider it likely Jorge would have let Dovi through if his title chances became less theoretical, but we will never know. Ironically MM did nearly crash late in the race, but I agree with those who opined at the time that he was more likely to crash riding comfortably for position than contesting fiercely.

As I understand it one of their main points of difference was over who was responsible for the improvement of the Ducati bike; I tend to think it was Jorge more than Dovi, both at the time and using the retrospectoscope. The guy who indisputably did have something to do with the bike becoming more competitive, one Gigi, certainly wanted Jorge despite Ducati already having Dovi. Domenicali, the guy who eventually prompted Jorge to leave is also an idiot in general, whether or not his attitude to Jorge was justified.

From my position of eminence sitting in my armchair, or sitting in a cafe having my Sunday morning coffee, Jorge is (or was anyway, the march of time and injuries may be catching up with him as another Jorge fan in Furiosa has said) very much a (premier class) championship quality rider, while Dovi imo although talented beyond the dreams of ordinary men isn’t quite.

Last edited by michaelm; July 27th, 2019 at 06:41 PM.
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July 28th, 2019, 02:35 PM   #13
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Aarrgghh...I can't take it...come on Jorge!!
I know there's all the up and coming young guns... but get fully fit again, show all these kids how it's done , come back stronger, smarter, better..... FASTER!!!!

Let's see an all out title assault for 2020...PROVE US ALL WRONG!!

You're really the only guy that's been able to take it to Marquez since the dawn of the MM93 era in 2013.

Don't go out with a whimper...Give Marc a war he will never forget!!!

WHO'S WITH ME??

WE'D ALL LOVE TO SEE A COMEBACK..

LET'S SEE THE SPARTAN FIGHT AGAIN!!



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July 29th, 2019, 06:02 AM   #14
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There's no doubt that giving up a position,especially a win, is bad for the viewer and it must kill the soul of a rider, but a TEAM is what wins the GP, from the brella girls to the guy that signs your check is part of the team. Give MM a low quality team and he'll do well, but never see the podium IMO.

Nothing against Lorenzo btw, one of the fondest memories I have of him is driving around Indy with a Captain America shield.
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July 29th, 2019, 07:35 AM   #15
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Stick Marc on a 10 year old Fireblade and he'd probably put up a title fight.

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July 29th, 2019, 08:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpurple View Post
There's no doubt that giving up a position,especially a win, is bad for the viewer and it must kill the soul of a rider, but a TEAM is what wins the GP, from the brella girls to the guy that signs your check is part of the team. Give MM a low quality team and he'll do well, but never see the podium IMO.

Nothing against Lorenzo btw, one of the fondest memories I have of him is driving around Indy with a Captain America shield.
As I said, please provide examples of premier class gp bike racing champions who have been happy to follow team orders. Whether or not Jorge’s attitude was admirable it goes with the territory. Watching the race live I thought he probably should have let him through when he was told to do so even if it is possibly technically illegal, but Jorge is not the reason Dovi didn’t win the title that year. Team orders don’t have the same tradition in GP bike racing, in which it has historically been up to the rider’s judgement, as they do in F1 where they are not infrequently ignored in any case. Many traditionalists aka old fogeys such as I am decry instructions from the pits, particularly the recent transition to dashboard messages, in modern gp bike racing. If we are talking pit instructions they can be wrong anyway; taking such advice actually endangered MM’s first world title for example. Ducati’s judgement, and record in regard to treatment, of their riders is also hardly unquestionable either, and Domenicalli is the latest incompetent imo.

I was a huge Stoner fan so I don’t deny the possibility that there are riders who have championship talent who never get the necessary opportunity, but MM was never going to be on second rate equipment after what he did prior to joining the premier class, and while he might not win on a satellite bike or a KTM he would do better than anyone else, and would be a title hope on a works Ducati or Suzuki, imo.
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July 29th, 2019, 12:42 PM   #17
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I Ride: Honda CRF250 (modified for Dirt Track)
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Lorenzo had to have known that when he left Yamaha he wasn't going to win many races, as there are plenty of examples of people trying to tame a new bike and failing, and he left behind a bike that he gelled with 100%.

Riders have gigantic egos of course but he had an example of how it could fail right next to him in the same garage. I would think winning more races would be more important than being a #2 rider, no matter how bad the pressure was there.

He probably thought he could not only rebuild the Duke but oust Dovi as the #1 rider...I just don't get how someone that deep in motorcycle racing could not understand about bikes and riding styles.

For a 25mln deal I would have done far worse things than riding a Duke

Jokes aside, I don't blame him. He did not clinch a title but he eventually tamed the Duke. Won races. I reckon had he stayed this year, he could have been a 4-5 wins/year rider again.

I am no JL fan at least not in the "real" sense of being a rider's fan, but I am very gutted to see how he struggles on the HRC.

Nevertheless a competitive JL is a joy for the eyes.
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August 2nd, 2019, 05:17 PM   #18
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If Rossi crashes out I bet it will end his career. I'd hate to see that.
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August 2nd, 2019, 07:49 PM   #19
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Yes, it could be much more fun to see him gradually decline and drop out of top ten permanently. Not that I care much, actually there are some young guns who deserve better bike and he certainly has a good bike.
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August 3rd, 2019, 05:13 AM   #20
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Jesus Christ, I haven't seen anything like it. Marc is a god.
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