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September 10th, 2019, 10:22 AM   #51
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I just watched old races out from boredom. 2015 Sepang and Valencia. O'brother, I even didn't remember all that drama. Now, looking back at Saturday press briefing and Sunday's race in Sepang I'd say Rossi started a war and the defeat in all fronts was devastating and humiliating. The way he was provoked to behave on the track did him great deal of damage. Sure enough, I believe firmly Marc was playing with him and was rather pesky doing it - but Marc didn't break any rules. It worked and Rossi fell for it. And then in Valencia Rossi had a snowball chance in the hell to finish higher than 3rd. Marc was in control, he wanted JL to win and Rossi be 3rd or worse and there was noone around who could have anything to do about it. If in doubt look how he put Pedrosa in place when he started threatening the top spot. Now I understand why Rossi was so bitter for so long, still is. This defeat must have gone deep under his skin.
Who was this racer who said lets be friendly, no need to add personal motives to the fight on the track. Smart fella, Rossi probably wishes he would have been that smart in 2015 ...
He would have still not won the title that year.

The fact that people think he could is what leads to all these shenanigans and to all the Marquez hate.

He was even harassed by Italo paps in quite an aggressive way.

Rossi only put himself in a corner in regards to his popularity with many many fans around the world, basically lost a bunch of fans but created a very negative wave with marquez and the rest of the world.

I have seen people mock Casey and Jorge but the hatred thrown at Marc is just brutal
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September 11th, 2019, 11:31 AM   #52
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I have seen people mock Casey and Jorge but the hatred thrown at Marc is just brutal

It’s because Marc didn’t “fold”under Rossi attacks and responded by winning more and more championships since 2015.



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September 12th, 2019, 03:21 AM   #53
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It’s because Marc didn’t “fold”under Rossi attacks and responded by winning more and more championships since 2015.



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Actually, I think it was because unlike Jorge and Casey, MM was up to mischief in 2015. Yes, he didn't break any rules, but he did play with Rossi in races towards the end of the season, clearly to allow Jorge to get away from Rossi, despite Jorge not being his teammate. I never personally liked that and understood Rossi's ire, though I never agreed with how he chose to react. Overreacting never pays. All it does is bring focus on the overreaction rather than the underlying cause for it.

Jorge and Casey are clean racers who respect their fellow riders, always. All Rossi fans could have against them is that they were stealing Rossi's glory fair and square. Rabid fans couldn't take/stand it.

MM is very different as we have seen over the years.
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September 12th, 2019, 05:15 AM   #54
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Actually, I think it was because unlike Jorge and Casey, MM was up to mischief in 2015. Yes, he didn't break any rules, but he did play with Rossi in races towards the end of the season, clearly to allow Jorge to get away from Rossi, despite Jorge not being his teammate. I never personally liked that and understood Rossi's ire, though I never agreed with how he chose to react. Overreacting never pays. All it does is bring focus on the overreaction rather than the underlying cause for it.

Jorge and Casey are clean racers who respect their fellow riders, always. All Rossi fans could have against them is that they were stealing Rossi's glory fair and square. Rabid fans couldn't take/stand it.

MM is very different as we have seen over the years.
Phillip Island. So he played with Rossi and allowed Lorenzo to run away despite overtaking Lorenzo on the final lap robbing him of an extra 5 valuable points?
I don’t buy that. There is no way that Marquez knew Iannone was going to beat Rossi. He took Lorenzo’s potential 9 point gain and turned it to what could have been only 4 points while trying to make sure Lorenzo was going to win the championship? Point to some kind of concrete proof of the shenanigans Marc was supposedly employing while winning a race.

Malaysia. He had been personally attacked by Rossi and there was no way he was going to let him beat him. It’s all good to look at the time they lost because of their fighting but it takes two riders making continual overtakes. Rossi overtook Marquez almost every time at the next corner while Marquez waited until *what looked like he may have thought* could’ve been a better position to make an overtake stick. If he had more pace that Marquez he could have shown it, over the weekend he never showed any pace to prove he could beat the top 3 over race distance despite a one off lap that got him pole. He gained out of the Malaysia race race. He would’ve finished 4th if not for a deliberate action that caused Marquez to crash and should’ve been immediately black flagged. Some point to his slow start to the race but in 2015 that was an issue he was having with a full tank in the RCV.

The irony of the race is that Rossi almost crashed out trying to keep pace with Marquez not long before he kicked Marquez off his bike and Rossi is the one who was heralded as a racing genius by employing a strategy that looked very similar to the Malaysia race to keep a faster rider behind him. I don’t believe Rossi used that strategy against Marquez in Malaysia but if I was looking at past history and how the overtakes were made in a similar fashion to those at Laguna its a more reasonable argument IMO than Rossi and Valebans own theories.

Valencia. Well this is the race that is the hardest one to evaluate IMO. Marquez was never ever going to make a move that put Lorenzo in a position to crash. The RCV struggled off the corners and couldn’t get close enough to make a point at the easiest overtaking which is going into turn 1. The track is notoriously hard to overtake on and I would imagine overtaking Lorenzo who at the time had a better bike without a risky move would’ve been pretty extremely hard especially when he had motivation not to ruin Lorenzo’s race. I am 100% sure that if he had needed to beat Lorenzo to win the championship he would’ve made a move regardless of the risk. But the idea of making a risky move, crashing and handing the championship to Rossi is just insane but anything less was proof of him cheating according Rossi and his moronic followers.

If he wanted to ride ‘shotgun’ for Lorenzo I’m not sure why he would make Lorenzo ride at record pace across race distance. Would it not make more sense to give Lorenzo a manageable gap and trail him a second or so behind to act his bodyguard? Then make it difficult to close the gap to Lorenzo for anyone looking to get past him be engaging in a Rossi vs Marquez type of battle.

The Pedrosa pass. Yes Pedro got by Marquez and was immediately overtaken. The thing often over looked is that Pedrosa ran wide which is the only reason why Marquez was able to retake second. Pedrosa never bothered making another move. Second position is all Lorenzo needed to sow up the championship anyway so why would Marquez need to retake Pedrosa? I think Marquez wanted to take the win to silence Rossi and his morons.

The realistic view is that Rossi was incredibly lucky in 2015 to be in the position he was. He took advantage of others mistakes as he should’ve and it can’t be held against him that he did.
Lorenzo’s helmet issues in 2015 cost him some valuable points earlier in the season through no fault of his own.
Marquez refusing to accept second place. I believe someone on here calculated that if Marquez had have settled for position rather than riding it in a win it or bin it style that he would’ve comfortable been in the lead heading into Valencia.
Cutting a corner to maintain position in Assen, when Marquez made a hard move on the final lap. The overtake or non overtake will be constantly debated but the rule of who has right of way seems to constantly change depending on who is involved. He should’ve IMO been relegated to second and another rider would have been if Rossi was the one making the pass.
The odd number of wet races in conditions that Lorenzo was struggling with at the time.
The mistake in Misano not costing him because Lorenzo stupidly crashed out after the bike swap.
Motegi drying out after Lorenzo had a good lead before the change in conditions contributed to him destroying his tyres.

Despite many of those fortunate breaks, Rossi didn’t have enough pace to maintain his points advantage as the fortunate luck on his part ran out. He and his crew had to look somewhere else or for someone else to blame for Rossi’s inability to compete with Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Marquez at the tail end of the season.
In the last 5 races of the season Rossi was beaten by Lorenzo 4x, Pedrosa 4x, Marquez 2x (which should’ve been 3) and Iannone 1x. That’s what cost him the championship. No bullshit shenanigans or theories, just speed at the end of the season. If not for Marquez crashing out at Aragon and then crashing Marquez out at Malaysia Rossi would’ve only finished on the podium in Japan. You can’t win a championship with that kind of form in the last 5 races when your closest competition is winning more races than you over the season.
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Last edited by p4p1; September 12th, 2019 at 05:21 AM.
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