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July 11th, 2019, 05:29 AM   #21
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Yes, been announced the other day. First South-African to ever race in the Top Class
Gary Hocking fairly closely approached being South African.

Last edited by michaelm; July 11th, 2019 at 09:09 AM.
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July 11th, 2019, 08:16 AM   #22
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Can't believe there's not been a single black guy in either the premiere or secondary classes after all this time. It would be so good for the sport and would really pump up the sportbike market if there were some prominent black riders.
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July 11th, 2019, 01:04 PM   #23
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Can't believe there's not been a single black guy in either the premiere or secondary classes after all this time. It would be so good for the sport and would really pump up the sportbike market if there were some prominent black riders.

True that. And other than James Stewart (SX, MX) and his brother Malcolm no professional-motorcycling black riders come to my mind.

Historically, due to its high costs, GP racing is a sport for wealthy people and I think and hope it's no offense to anyone to say that usually in western countries black people tend to be less wealthy than whites, so that could play a role.
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July 11th, 2019, 01:19 PM   #24
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Despite "white men cannot jump" I want to see them in the basketball, that's what you saying? Hire people by their skin color, not by their talents? This, my friend, is called racism. Any preferential treatment by color is racism by definition. (Some also call it political correctness.)
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July 11th, 2019, 02:01 PM   #25
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Despite "white men cannot jump" I want to see them in the basketball, that's what you saying? Hire people by their skin color, not by their talents? This, my friend, is called racism. Any preferential treatment by color is racism by definition. (Some also call it political correctness.)

Lol.

I mean tho cmon sometimes there is a difference and there ain't nothing wrong with it.

Random examples. Black people are significantly more skilled at running both in speed disciplines and in endurance ones. White people are far more skilled in water-sport disciplines such as swimming and water polo.

Several sports historically dominated by white athletes have astonishing-good black athletes (think of Hockey and the Subban brothers) and viceversa (think of NBA and ma man Danilo Gallinari). It'd be like that, racist or not.
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July 11th, 2019, 02:03 PM   #26
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True that. And other than James Stewart (SX, MX) and his brother Malcolm no professional-motorcycling black riders come to my mind.

Historically, due to its high costs, GP racing is a sport for wealthy people and I think and hope it's no offense to anyone to say that usually in western countries black people tend to be less wealthy than whites, so that could play a role.
The feeder classes (at least here) are I believe not overwhelmingly filled with rich kids. Casey Stoner's dad was lower middle class at best. His folks really scrimped and saved and sacrificed driving insane distances using low-end transport. Freddie Spencer, Kenny Roberts, Eddie Lawson, Rainey and Schwantz as far as I recall, all came from pretty much blue collar backgrounds. I don't think it's so much a question of wealth as the fact that roadracing is just not really on the radar of young black athletes. Football, baseball and basketball are well known paths to immense wealth - whereas most people (again here in the states) see roadracing as an expensive hobby and not a potential career choice. In Europe there's much more awareness of MotoGp and kids start having big dreams of making it in the sport. Here - kids start out thinking they're going to have fun for a few years banging around in club racing and gradually they find themselves moving into Superbike (if they can afford to).

In Ireland it's all about riding on public road circuits and emulating all the Irish riders folks talk about at the pubs. It's just how the culture has evolved.

Last edited by Keshav; July 11th, 2019 at 03:20 PM.
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July 11th, 2019, 03:28 PM   #27
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Keshav, I agree with you. I agree with you that wealth isn't the only factor. As you say, the sport has to be on the radar of the prospective black competitor. As they say, there's power in numbers and it takes extra-ordinary bravery and heart for an extreme minority in any group to set out to succeed despite the 'odds', real or imagined.

If you notice, there'll be countries where great riders habitually crop up because the culture is there and the opportunity for steeping oneself in a high standard of riding is there without having to jump on a plane to get to it.

So money alone, may not be factor. But combined circumstances, i.e., finance as well as lack of confidence in succeeding because one is a minority. A prospective black rider who is poor will more likely take his chances in areas where there have been successful blacks before him.

Lewis Hamilton with his Dad were extra-ordinary in what they did and their success is not at all surprising considering what they ambitiously set out to do. As Hamilton rightfully said, his success will hopefully encourage others like him to go for it in motorsport and furthermore, that he planned to assist in the process.

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July 12th, 2019, 12:55 AM   #28
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The feeder classes (at least here) are I believe not overwhelmingly filled with rich kids. Casey Stoner's dad was lower middle class at best. His folks really scrimped and saved and sacrificed driving insane distances using low-end transport. Freddie Spencer, Kenny Roberts, Eddie Lawson, Rainey and Schwantz as far as I recall, all came from pretty much blue collar backgrounds. I don't think it's so much a question of wealth as the fact that roadracing is just not really on the radar of young black athletes. Football, baseball and basketball are well known paths to immense wealth - whereas most people (again here in the states) see roadracing as an expensive hobby and not a potential career choice. In Europe there's much more awareness of MotoGp and kids start having big dreams of making it in the sport. Here - kids start out thinking they're going to have fun for a few years banging around in club racing and gradually they find themselves moving into Superbike (if they can afford to).

In Ireland it's all about riding on public road circuits and emulating all the Irish riders folks talk about at the pubs. It's just how the culture has evolved.


Could be. And I'm sure it changes country by country.

My opinion of course comes from my experience. My dad is for sure not a millionaire but nor does he have big lacks of money. I have raced road racing from my 8 to 17 years old and when I was 17, since I had never been fast enough to be ever picked by a team in which you don't have to pay to race for, he just told me "we have to quit this, we can not afford it anymore". And so we did.

I kept riding for fun until I was 22 but with my own job the closest thing I can afford is dirt track, which is amazing don't get me wrong, but 10 times cheaper than road racing.


And this ain't no "if I were rich I'd be in motoGP" bullshit, but of course once you are already racing but are still a kid is all about how much you can pay a team to race for them. If I had kids and money I'd be willing to do the investment as:

paying more = better team = better bike = likely to get better results = more possibilities of making it to pro level


There are several champions who came from nothing: Stoner as you say, Rossi himself was anything but a rich kid, Antonio Cairoli in motocross (his family was literally broke even before he started racing, which makes his achievements even more astonishing), Hamilton if we look at F1, and many others. But the more time passes, the less non-rich riders can make it.


Keep in my mind that nowadays most of the Moto3 and Moto2 riders pay their teams to race in the WC, and a few motoGP riders do as well (HEY, I said Czech Republic, if what you read is "Abraham" that's your problem ).

I.E. a rookie year in the SKY VR46 Academy in Moto3 costs around 300k EUR/year. Price for next year would depend on the achieved results but the Teams still keep a percentage of the Rider's sponsors income.


And don't even get me started with Car-sports. In a nutshell: over here, without money, you nowadays have close to 0% possibilities of making it to a pro level in any motorsport.
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Last edited by Holypuck; July 12th, 2019 at 03:45 AM.
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July 12th, 2019, 05:03 AM   #29
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Could be. And I'm sure it changes country by country.

My opinion of course comes from my experience. My dad is for sure not a millionaire but nor does he have big lacks of money. I have raced road racing from my 8 to 17 years old and when I was 17, since I had never been fast enough to be ever picked by a team in which you don't have to pay to race for, he just told me "we have to quit this, we can not afford it anymore". And so we did.

I kept riding for fun until I was 22 but with my own job the closest thing I can afford is dirt track, which is amazing don't get me wrong, but 10 times cheaper than road racing.


And this ain't no "if I were rich I'd be in motoGP" bullshit, but of course once you are already racing but are still a kid is all about how much you can pay a team to race for them. If I had kids and money I'd be willing to do the investment as:

paying more = better team = better bike = likely to get better results = more possibilities of making it to pro level


There are several champions who came from nothing: Stoner as you say, Rossi himself was anything but a rich kid, Antonio Cairoli in motocross (his family was literally broke even before he started racing, which makes his achievements even more astonishing), Hamilton if we look at F1, and many others. But the more time passes, the less non-rich riders can make it.


Keep in my mind that nowadays most of the Moto3 and Moto2 riders pay their teams to race in the WC, and a few motoGP riders do as well (HEY, I said Czech Republic, if what you read is "Abraham" that's your problem ).

I.E. a rookie year in the SKY VR46 Academy in Moto3 costs around 300k EUR/year. Price for next year would depend on the achieved results but the Teams still keep a percentage of the Rider's sponsors income.


And don't even get me started with Car-sports. In a nutshell: over here, without money, you nowadays have close to 0% possibilities of making it to a pro level in any motorsport.
I get it. I road-raced AMA-CCS and WERA till I was 36 and I wasn't rich. Didn't have the best equipment - but did it for fun.

The point is - if a rider is seriously talented they can pick up sponsorship $ - but it takes a lot of sacrifice and flat out dedication with no room for side distractions.
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July 12th, 2019, 06:06 AM   #30
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I get it. I road-raced AMA-CCS and WERA till I was 36 and I wasn't rich. Didn't have the best equipment - but did it for fun.

The point is - if a rider is seriously talented they can pick up sponsorship $ - but it takes a lot of sacrifice and flat out dedication with no room for side distractions.

Oh yeah I didn't state that but I was talking about racing at a level that has going pro as an an achievable-aim.

And of course the only "world" I know well when it comes to this is Italy and the Italian riders/teams.

Sponsors over here do not play a role as crucial as elsewhere as they prefer to bond themselves with teams instead of single riders, so you need to get to a good team, which also if you are fast asks for money, and there is the circle.

So you see weird stuff at times. There are riders like N. Bulega who are sponsored by big companies like Monster Energy or Dainese and have never won a race as pros (in his case not even done a podium nor finished a championship in the top 10 in over 3 years).

Luckily, once you DO make it to the WC, 99% of the issues are determined by your right wrist
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