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July 10th, 2019, 04:50 AM   #41
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[QUOTE=MigsAngel;461555]MM has to win the title on another manufacturer before being declared greater than Stoner....


Stoner might have had even more raw talent than MM, but here's some shocking news for ya:

MM's titles: 7

CS's titles: 2


Take your time to do the math and then get back at us
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July 10th, 2019, 05:31 AM   #42
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[QUOTE=Holypuck;461640]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MigsAngel View Post
MM has to win the title on another manufacturer before being declared greater than Stoner....


Stoner might have had even more raw talent than MM, but here's some shocking news for ya:

MM's titles: 7

CS's titles: 2


Take your time to do the math and then get back at us
It will never be known. Does Marquez hassle and pester stoner at close quarters forcing him to error, or does stoner break out, forcing Marquez to error overriding the limit to keep in contention? We do know, Casey can start a race at pace, ala Lorenzo, and clear out. Marquez has done so this year, when track suited.

Crystal ball shit. Marc doesn't win debut season, with Casey at HRC. Stoner relishes and appreciates the challenge. Doesn't retire. Marquez champ 2014. Lorenzo 2015. Who wins 2016?? Shit. Rossi might have had his chance?
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July 10th, 2019, 05:42 AM   #43
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[QUOTE=Holypuck;461640]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MigsAngel View Post
MM has to win the title on another manufacturer before being declared greater than Stoner....


Stoner might have had even more raw talent than MM, but here's some shocking news for ya:

MM's titles: 7

CS's titles: 2


Take your time to do the math and then get back at us
On the face of it I’d venture to say they’d have been on-track equals - but Marquez’ immunity to the politics and social media bullshit along with his being at ease with the demands for PR work would have given him the edge. All the the media circus nonsense seemed to defuse Stoner’s focus.
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July 10th, 2019, 06:57 AM   #44
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Here's my 2 cents:

in terms of RAW talent Stoner is the best rider in the history of the sport, or at least of the one I witnessed (I follow MotoGP since I was 10 aka '02).

But Casey, despite being a God on a motorcycle (and I literally mean that), was not a racing animal. Never liked dogfights and never had the killer instinct. The lack of this "mean" side was one of the main things that burned him out.

Marquez adores taking aggressive overtakes. He gives no fucks who's in front of him he'll just come in trying to smash you. This is the main difference between the two.

While due to his immense speed, on certain tracks (like Phillip Island) Stoner would have been uncatchable even for the best Marquez, on a championship contention I personally have no doubt: MM would have beat him.


Of course would have been amazing to see even for just one year: team mates, so no bike advantage for any of the two, MM having his strongest point in the beginning/middle of the turn and Stoner having it in the middle/exiting... the battles between the two would have been orgasmic, no argument about that.
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Last edited by Holypuck; July 10th, 2019 at 07:01 AM.
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July 10th, 2019, 07:44 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holypuck View Post
Here's my 2 cents:

in terms of RAW talent Stoner is the best rider in the history of the sport, or at least of the one I witnessed (I follow MotoGP since I was 10 aka '02).

But Casey, despite being a God on a motorcycle (and I literally mean that), was not a racing animal. Never liked dogfights and never had the killer instinct. The lack of this "mean" side was one of the main things that burned him out.

Marquez adores taking aggressive overtakes. He gives no fucks who's in front of him he'll just come in trying to smash you. This is the main difference between the two.

While due to his immense speed, on certain tracks (like Phillip Island) Stoner would have been uncatchable even for the best Marquez, on a championship contention I personally have no doubt: MM would have beat him.


Of course would have been amazing to see even for just one year: team mates, so no bike advantage for any of the two, MM having his strongest point in the beginning/middle of the turn and Stoner having it in the middle/exiting... the battles between the two would have been orgasmic, no argument about that.
You underestimate Stoners ability to enter the turns.

Marc would of only had an advantage in breaking and Maybe corner entry judging by how he just throws the bike down into it.

Stoner would already have the rear out and smoking (if he wanted it to) before hitting mid corner giving him great grip as he would get the bike up sooner as well because of that.

I remember In catalunya 2011 Jorge's bike was as smooth as it could be and I could see Stoner just pull away a bit more at every corner, I couldn't quite understand where the difference was until I saw the slowmo replay on one of the left handers. DAMN
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July 10th, 2019, 07:50 AM   #46
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Well, you must be a genius if you understood what Stoner was doing. Other top riders who followed him out of curiosity and in hope to learn something have said they couldn't learn anything because they didn't understand how he was doing it.
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July 10th, 2019, 07:57 AM   #47
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Well, you must be a genius if you understood what Stoner was doing. Other top riders who followed him out of curiosity and in hope to learn something have said they couldn't learn anything because they didn't understand how he was doing it.
Never said I understood how he did it.

I did however understand how what he did gave him an advantage.

I remember an interview with Espargaro or Bautista not sure, who said the exact same you did.

I followed Stoner out of curiosity and could NOT understand how the fuck he rode. that alone is amazing.
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July 10th, 2019, 09:01 AM   #48
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[QUOTE=Keshav;461643]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holypuck View Post

On the face of it I’d venture to say they’d have been on-track equals - but Marquez’ immunity to the politics and social media bullshit along with his being at ease with the demands for PR work would have given him the edge. All the the media circus nonsense seemed to defuse Stoner’s focus.
If you read his bio, you come away with the distinct impression of a very solitary, loner kind of kid, totally obsessive in the way he deconstructed the circuits he raced at, totally happy just to travel from race to race seeing and hanging out with just a few pals and having meals with mom and dad. On those occasions when he just walked away from the field, unlike some riders who will say they feel alone and disconnected from the action, you got the feeling he was happiest then, without the distraction of other riders, instead, just reading the track and beating his own best performances. It never seemed he was all that invested in beating his rivals, just the track, because; he was just that good, and he knew it.
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July 10th, 2019, 09:11 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by MagicMarc93 View Post
Absolutely he will. He'll finish his contract with HRC next season and move on to Suzuki probably and win on his first attempt.
Then he'll do it again on yet a different bike after that.
He is unstoppable.

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first marc isnt leaving hrc till 10. after that he goes to ducati. much like any f1 guy wanting to go to ferrari). also his brother is going to pramac. he will automatically become untouchable (to me he is already) when he wins on the ducati. where do you come up with suzuki. ducati has audi and marlboro the money is unlimited. honda is dwarfed by volkswagon group.
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July 10th, 2019, 09:15 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by MichaelBolton View Post
Dovi out of the Q2. For all the criticism Rossi gets for not being at the top of his game at 40, he should be commended for showing more competitiveness than Dovi, who is the one that actually looks like he's on the verge of retirement. He's riding with such disinterest this year and already conceding defeat...
i think he knows its over for this year. marc deflated him
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