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Segfault May 8th, 2019 07:28 AM

Lorenzo
 
I wonder what is really going on there. Did Honda really contract Lorenzo only to get rid of potential Ducati title winner? In Jerez he should have been on podium at least, and he was nowhere.

MigsAngel May 8th, 2019 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segfault (Post 460700)
I wonder what is really going on there. Did Honda really contract Lorenzo only to get rid of potential Ducati title winner? In Jerez he should have been on podium at least, and he was nowhere.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/91...ointed-worried

He's struggling and he knows its up to him to sort it out...

He somehow conviced HRC to take him on, but he probably thought he coudl beat MM on the same bike....it is clear he cant and wont....

MM in my view will stay with HRC until he wins more titles than Rossi, and by then JLow will have retired...

MagicMarc93 May 8th, 2019 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segfault (Post 460700)
I wonder what is really going on there. Did Honda really contract Lorenzo only to get rid of potential Ducati title winner? In Jerez he should have been on podium at least, and he was nowhere.

Simple - The Honda is not very well developed at all. Only Marc's almost other worldly talents can do anything with it.

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Keshav May 8th, 2019 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segfault (Post 460700)
I wonder what is really going on there. Did Honda really contract Lorenzo only to get rid of potential Ducati title winner? In Jerez he should have been on podium at least, and he was nowhere.

I don't think Honda would be that narrowly focused on his worth to the team. I believe they thought he was the best qualified rider to fill the spot. He's mature and not likely to start any inter-team rivalry nonsense. He's realistic enough to know he's not going to be challenging Marquez for the championship. And, it's pretty clear that he quietly went about his business of making the Ducati more rider friendly - something HRC really need, because they can't afford to put all their eggs in one basket. If he can work with HRC to make the bike easier to ride for future riders, that will make him a very valuable asset. I know it's a case of 20/20 hindsight, but I've said it before; Dovi could have done for Honda what he's done with Ducati. They were very short-sighted when they let him go.

Hollywood May 8th, 2019 09:13 AM

it had to be a money move for him, JLo's rinding style did not fit the Ducati and it certainly does not fit the Honda. he probably would have had better luck on the Suzuki.

misfit May 8th, 2019 11:04 AM

Hi guys, I don't see why we should not take Lorenzo's feedback as authentic. He describes difficulty riding the Honda because it requires a lot of upper body strength to get the most out of it. Upper body strength that he has lost a lot of because of his injuries and which he is having trouble getting on top of because of his current difficulties with strength training. I wish him all the best and would love to see him spectacularly improve, yet again.

evo9 May 8th, 2019 11:16 AM

For those who believes HRC hired him to make him slow

https://www.marca.com/motor/motogp/2...73a8b4610.html

Hollywood May 8th, 2019 11:52 AM

https://i.ibb.co/4WDGGHg/30h88x.jpg

Holypuck May 8th, 2019 11:56 AM

Honda is (as it should) a machine made for Marquez.

Marc's riding is very violent on the front wheel, and he uses the back wheel almost as an extension of his body. Indeed all his crashes come from losing the front, he enters the corner in a more extreme way than any other rider and builds his corner speed by rough acceleration from the mid to the exiting part of the turn. Independently of his speed, that is a rather unique riding style.

For a rider like Lorenzo, who brakes from a very "vertical" body/wheels position and then comes very straight into the corner and builds his corner speed by turning and accelerating smoothly it's very hard to ride with a frame and setup that was created for the exact opposing style.

I am fully convinced Lorenzo will become competitive on the HRC, as he did with the Ducati, but it will take time.

This being said:

1) He sure is underperforming right now, even given the current situation.

2) HRC sure hired him ALSO as it took away a potentially very, very fast rival.

Hollywood May 8th, 2019 12:38 PM

Ducati went out of their way to build a bike for Lorenzo, different frames, tanks, seats, etc.
I do not see Honda doing that for Lorenzo, they know they have a championship winning bike, and they will not try to fix something that is not broken.

Theo May 8th, 2019 12:57 PM

Lorenzo is only doing it to build up his pension.:p

Keshav May 8th, 2019 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood (Post 460718)
Ducati went out of their way to build a bike for Lorenzo, different frames, tanks, seats, etc.
I do not see Honda doing that for Lorenzo, they know they have a championship winning bike, and they will not try to fix something that is not broken.

I thought the same, but someone here posted a reputable source that stated otherwise. It would be a prudent course of action because Marquez is just one unlucky shoulder injury away from throwing away a championship. And who knows when he's going to decide to try winning a championship on a Ducati? (probably not till he's had his 10th) And then what? A more tractable bike not dependent on freak talent like Stoner or Marquez would be an attractive proposition. Hiring guys like Doohan, Stoner or Marquez is not always a given.

Keshav May 9th, 2019 03:51 AM

From Motosport Magazine https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...nd-prix-part-2

Dovizioso will certainly be less worried going to Le Mans than his former team-mate. Jorge Lorenzo had a horrible first home grand prix with Repsol Honda – 11th in qualifying, 12th in the race, 14th in the championship – and cannot yet see the light at the end of the tunnel.

“I’m sad, disappointed and worried,” he said on Sunday afternoon. “I put everything on the track but I couldn’t go faster. I don’t like the situation, but I’m a champion and champions keep fighting and I will find a solution.”

Lorenzo has a very particular riding technique and therefore needs a very particular machine set-up. At Ducati it took him 24 races to find winning speed and he doesn’t want to wait that long with the RC213V.

In fact the problem he’s having with the Honda isn’t that dissimilar to one of the problems he had at Ducati. It’s all about getting him in the right position during braking, although this is complicated by the fact that the RC213V is a shorter, smaller motorcycle than his previous bikes.

The Honda is much more compact, so I don’t feel really comfortable, especially in braking,” added the three-time MotoGP champion. “I have problems in corner entry because the bike is transferring too much weight to the front.

“I’m braking quite late but because I don’t feel comfortable in braking. I arrive too late at the corner and I make the corner too late. I’d like to stop before and lean before and finish the corner faster with more corner speed and to exit faster. I’m losing a lot of time compared to all the other Honda riders and I won’t be fast until we solve this problem. We need to find solutions; maybe something with the engine-braking or the chassis.”

Old timers here will remember Jum dubbing the 2007 RC213V "the Pedrocycle" and this is it's legacy. At 5.6 and 130 Lbs Marquez is surely the right tool for the job. Funny to think that Lorenzo only one inch taller but 16 Lbs heavier is practically chubby in comparison. The bike isn't bad per se, just too narrowly focused.

Segfault May 9th, 2019 05:25 AM

Yeah go figure, even if I buy $20 shoes I have a chance to try them on. No trying the bike you have to race on for next two years. Quite silly, isn't it?

N1ce Racing May 13th, 2019 09:22 PM

They got renz held down!!

https://media.giphy.com/media/VermSa...DISL/giphy.gif

Segfault June 3rd, 2019 04:40 PM

So now what.

Lorenzo > Yamaha
Rossi > beach

?

Theo June 3rd, 2019 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segfault (Post 461052)
So now what.

Lorenzo > Yamaha
Rossi > beach

?

No both on the beach.

MigsAngel June 4th, 2019 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theo (Post 461054)
No both on the beach.

  1. JLo to be rider coach for Biaggi's racing team...
  2. Rossi to get 'honorary' seat on Dorna board

Holypuck June 4th, 2019 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MigsAngel (Post 461058)
  1. JLo to be rider coach for Biaggi's racing team...
  2. Rossi to get 'honorary' seat on Dorna board


Call me crazy but IMHO on the right bike they would both still be capable of winning a race every now and then, on certain tracks. Especially Jorge.

MagicMarc93 June 4th, 2019 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theo (Post 461054)
No both on the beach.

Just Rossi, he could open a t-shirt stall....that's the one thing he's good at.

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misfit June 4th, 2019 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holypuck (Post 461060)
Call me crazy but IMHO on the right bike they would both still be capable of winning a race every now and then, on certain tracks. Especially Jorge.

It does seem the flavour of the month to talk down Rossi and JLo. I fully agree with you and would add that it's more than now and then that they would win. Dovi is not the next in line in terms of capability on track. I'm not convinced he's better than JLo or Rossi for that matter. I don't think he's that good though I really like him.

Theo June 4th, 2019 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misfit (Post 461065)
It does seem the flavour of the month to talk down Rossi and JLo. I fully agree with you and would add that it's more than now and then that they would win. Dovi is not the next in line in terms of capability on track. I'm not convinced he's better than JLo or Rossi for that matter. I don't think he's that good though I really like him.

In think Dovi's problem is he fact when he hits front a switch turns off and he goes into tyre saving mode, could be why IMO he will never win a championship in this class, but yes he's a likeable guy, just no killer instinct.

Hollywood June 4th, 2019 09:47 AM

I think Dovi's strategy has a lot to do with tires, he wants to save as much tire as he can to battle it out, he's one of the best at gaining a position back immediately after loosing it. I think if Dovi could start races on the Hard/Hard compounds he would try to check out from the field, but his qualifying has been shit, and that forces him to start with mediums to battle early.

Holypuck June 4th, 2019 10:43 AM

As I'm always happy to state, and as much as I'm still stoked for Petrux, I'm a huge Dovi fan. Followed his whole career. Each time I was lucky enough to have quick talks with him at races or at the Italian motor shows he made me even more of a fan. Super polite and kind person and more importantly a very down to earth guy.

But I have to agree with Misfit when he says that JL and VR are better riders overall (and the amount of titles they won proves it, imho) and with Theo on his statement: most times he lacks the killer instinct indeed. On the other hand tho, he can be very brilliant with strategies and such.

I guess your favorite rider is like your football team tho. You are supposed to follow them in the good and in the "bad" things/moments :D

misfit June 4th, 2019 11:59 AM

Dovi is one of my favourites as well. Very nice fellow. I was really hoping he would take the 2017 title since it would have likely been his only chance. Though he has a good head and excellent racecraft, he lacks that little extra pace. He also seems to be quite sensitive to setup and conditions so he will be there on one weekend and nowhere on another.

The really fast and successful riders tend to be more ruthless and erm selfish. IMO, Stoner was a notable exception, but he bailed out quickly because he couldn't take the 'circus' anymore.

MagicMarc93 June 4th, 2019 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holypuck (Post 461069)
As I'm always happy to state, and as much as I'm still stoked for Petrux, I'm a huge Dovi fan. Followed his whole career. Each time I was lucky enough to have quick talks with him at races or at the Italian motor shows he made me even more of a fan. Super polite and kind person and more importantly a very down to earth guy.

But I have to agree with Misfit when he says that JL and VR are better riders overall (and the amount of titles they won proves it, imho) and with Theo on his statement: most times he lacks the killer instinct indeed. On the other hand tho, he can be very brilliant with strategies and such.

I guess your favorite rider is like your football team tho. You are supposed to follow them in the good and in the "bad" things/moments :D

He does come across like that on TV. Actually despite Lorenzo's poor public image he's really good to talk to as well, chatted briefly to him several times over the years.

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Hollywood June 4th, 2019 01:07 PM

Dovi should be an automatic Q2 qualifier at every round of the championship, though for some reason his side a the garage is never focused on this, almost as if they are over thinking the set up.

misfit June 4th, 2019 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood (Post 461074)
Dovi should be an automatic Q2 qualifier at every round of the championship, though for some reason his side a the garage is never focused on this, almost as if they are over thinking the set up.

It just struck me, but I can't think of any other rider than Marquez who is always qualifying at the front. All the others tend to be up and down. I'm not sure if it's the tires. But it's amazing how Marquez tends to make it on the front row. Dovi is being sometime'ish like the others.

MagicMarc93 June 4th, 2019 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misfit (Post 461075)
It just struck me, but I can't think of any other rider than Marquez who is always qualifying at the front. All the others tend to be up and down. I'm not sure if it's the tires. But it's amazing how Marquez tends to make it on the front row. Dovi is being sometime'ish like the others.

It's called "Being the best ever".

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darkkakashi June 4th, 2019 10:28 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lYkJijQCc2Q

Gaz June 5th, 2019 12:51 AM

Flame suit on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holypuck (Post 461060)
Call me crazy but IMHO on the right bike they would both still be capable of winning a race every now and then, on certain tracks. Especially Jorge.

Lorenzo on the Yamaha or Suzuki would be more than capable of winning races and I do expect him to get some wins on the Honda, but in saying that I also cannot hide my disappointment in just how slow his transitions are from competitive back to competitive (Yamaha - Ducati - Honda).

Rossi, well he can still win races as we have seen but for me (can feel some steaming up now), the number of circumstances he needs in his favour are far greater than a Lorenzo to win, and in saying this I do not refer to the bike but all other aspects. There is no doubt he has the racecraft, the mind, the desire and the will but I am not so sure he is able to put them all together as frequently as we have seen in the past - yes, I think age is catching up.


Quote:

Originally Posted by misfit (Post 461065)
It does seem the flavour of the month to talk down Rossi and JLo. I fully agree with you and would add that it's more than now and then that they would win. Dovi is not the next in line in terms of capability on track. I'm not convinced he's better than JLo or Rossi for that matter. I don't think he's that good though I really like him.

This is where the flame suit may be needed but I do agree and personally I would have him 4th at best as for me, the tribulations of Rossi and Lorenzo are masking the order somewhat, but then, you can also only compete against those on the same track at the same time so in that aspect, he is best of the rest as it sits today.

Holypuck June 5th, 2019 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaz (Post 461078)
Flame suit on.



Lorenzo on the Yamaha or Suzuki would be more than capable of winning races and I do expect him to get some wins on the Honda, but in saying that I also cannot hide my disappointment in just how slow his transitions are from competitive back to competitive (Yamaha - Ducati - Honda).

Rossi, well he can still win races as we have seen but for me (can feel some steaming up now), the number of circumstances he needs in his favour are far greater than a Lorenzo to win, and in saying this I do not refer to the bike but all other aspects. There is no doubt he has the racecraft, the mind, the desire and the will but I am not so sure he is able to put them all together as frequently as we have seen in the past - yes, I think age is catching up.




This is where the flame suit may be needed but I do agree and personally I would have him 4th at best as for me, the tribulations of Rossi and Lorenzo are masking the order somewhat, but then, you can also only compete against those on the same track at the same time so in that aspect, he is best of the rest as it sits today.


I agree with most of the above.


As per Lorenzo, what sorta worries me is that he has not yet had one single "moment". In his first Ducati year, when he was struggling a lot, he was still capable of putting down fast laps every now and then, as well as good qualifying sessions and was even capable of having a few laps up front in the race, before dropping out of the top 5/top 10....but so far with Honda he hasn't done ANY of that...I really dunno what to think.

Gaz June 5th, 2019 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holypuck (Post 461079)
As per Lorenzo, what sorta worries me is that he has not yet had one single "moment". In his first Ducati year, when he was struggling a lot, he was still capable of putting down fast laps every now and then, as well as good qualifying sessions and was even capable of having a few laps up front in the race, before dropping out of the top 5/top 10....but so far with Honda he hasn't done ANY of that...I really dunno what to think.

Agreed on Lorenzo but at the same time, if my aging memory is still close to usable he did not start to show much until the second half of the season in year 1 at Ducati (all from memory so could well be wrong).

He has still had a couple of good sessions/laps so far on the Honda but not enough of the consistency we have come to expect or the metronomic approach where he turns lap after lap at the same pace ...........much like early days at Ducati.

I will be fair and wonder if it is the seat to peg to bars that seemed the issue at Ducati and has followed to Honda as there is no doubt Lorenzo has a different style to Marquez so bike dynamics and dimensions may be interesting

Keshav June 5th, 2019 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holypuck (Post 461079)
I agree with most of the above.


As per Lorenzo, what sorta worries me is that he has not yet had one single "moment". In his first Ducati year, when he was struggling a lot, he was still capable of putting down fast laps every now and then, as well as good qualifying sessions and was even capable of having a few laps up front in the race, before dropping out of the top 5/top 10....but so far with Honda he hasn't done ANY of that...I really dunno what to think.

Flame? I don't see anything controversial in your post. Seems well thought out.

Mrpurple June 5th, 2019 07:35 AM

Was Suzuki on the table when he took the Honda? He should have had his invincible phase run out with his time at Ducati...Honda can change only so much for him.

Get the filthy lucre while you can I know but maybe wining races gives more in the end.

Holypuck June 5th, 2019 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keshav (Post 461081)
Flame? I don't see anything controversial in your post. Seems well thought out.


come again?

misfit June 5th, 2019 08:27 AM

It's Gaz and not Holypuck that was concerned he may need a flame suit. But I don't think so.

Holypuck June 5th, 2019 08:31 AM

LOL I hadn't even noticed that

Keshav June 5th, 2019 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holypuck (Post 461083)
come again?

Ooops - replied to wrong post. That was for Gaz.:o

Barbedwirebikerr June 5th, 2019 11:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Clearly the RCV fits Marc much better.
Or Marc fits the RCV better.


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